What do we do with Escobar?

[brwrsfan]

The more I think about this...the more it really is a problem. Let's just assume that both LaPorta and Escobar turn into solid major league players within the next year or so. Assuming we don't trade Bill Hall next season (which I think will happen), I highly doubt that they'd ask him to move positions AGAIN. That being said, let's pencil him in at 3b. If Escobar is THAT good defensively and adequate with the bat, we're going to put him at SS.

 

Here in lies my personal dilema...no matter how I slice it, there are just too many players. My ideal scenario...Brewers finally bite the bullet with Weeks and move him to CF, leaving Braun and Hart at the corners. Hardy moves to second, we're incredibly solid up the middle defensively....and have nowhere to put Matt Laporta.

 

If Weeks doesn't move, and we do move Hardy to third...where is Bill Hall, and if he's in the OF again...there's no LaPorta.....this could potentially all be solved by trading Bill Hall and moving Hart to CF...but what if Hall returns to his 2006 form? Do we trade him at that point, with a manageable contract that has 2 years remaining? Do we trade Escobar or Laporta? Hardy?

 

It's not a problem I'm used to with the Brewers, and it will kill me when we trade someone that is blocked and they become a stud somewhere else....then again, maybe they won't even pan out.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

If things fall as you project, brwrsfan, I would consider it a good problem to have. Good teams have players blocked by better players and the key is trading them for prospects that can help you down the road to keep reloading and staying competative. Plus you need contingencies for injuries, etc.

 

The Brewers no longer are using average or below average players to fill the roster which is a good situation to be in.

[TooLiveBrew]

Agreed w/jjh7. This will probably work itself out much more conveniently than it seems as of right now. Heck, before today most were still convinced (myself included) that we had 'too many' SP for MLB... and then Cappy's elbow injury pops up.

[endaround]

Keep in mind Hardy is only Brewer property for two seasons after this one. Unless he has a breakout year, he's falling into the good but not great player area. The Brewers really can't afford to pay $10 m/ year for a solid but not great player given the other players out there they have to pay. Escobar could easily replace Counsell next season and then Hardy after they trade Hardy. Or they could easily trade Hardy this coming off season. If you payed attention to the bunch of talk about long term contracts this spring, Hardy's name was never mentioned.

[uwisfan]

hard to put a value on Hardy yet. Is the player we saw early last year the one he'll be in the future? It's certainly possible his back problems affected his hitting and fielding. Same with Weeks. But then again, maybe both are injury-prone.

[DrWood]

If things fall as you project, brwrsfan, I would consider it a good problem to have. Good teams have players blocked by better players and the key is trading them for prospects that can help you down the road to keep reloading and staying competative. Plus you need contingencies for injuries, etc.

I suspect the "block" will be moved rather than the blocked player, as done with Overbay and Fielder. It's better monetarily. You just need to keep developing players that are as good as or better than the ones you move.

 

[bork]

Having too many shortstops has never been a problem. Look at the Brewers over a 10 year period from 84-93. Yount, Riles, Sveum, Sheffield, Spiers, Listach. All home grown. All either ended up getting hurt or moved to a different position.

[bullox]

Escobar had the #5 play on Sportscenter's Top Plays segment this morning.

[TooLiveBrew]

Can anyone post the play? It'd be much appreciated. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Mass Haas]

Unfortunately it's only available to MLB.TV subscribers (I believe), but here's the MLB scoreboard for the game on the 17th, click on the MLB.TV icon for the Brewer game -- the Alcides Escobar play which was # 5 on the Sportscenter Plays of the Day is in the top of the 10th inning, at the 2:41 minute mark.

 

Wow!

 

Journal-Sentinel Note:

 

Shortstop Alcides Escobar made the defensive play of spring training for the Brewers on Monday, ranging "deep, deep in the hole where no man has ever been before," as manager Ned Yost described it, to field a ball. Escobar made a jump-throw to get the runner (Pablo Ozuna) at first base. Yost also joked with reporters who didn't see the play that it was so fantastic he couldn't describe it to them. "The only thing that wasn't real pretty about the play was the green hat he was wearing," Yost said, referring to the St. Patrick's Day caps the Brewers wore.

[brewers19]

Wow, I clicked the MLB.TV icon and my computer is now in the process of downloading what appears to be the entire game, even without a subscription.

 

Sweet deal. Get it while it's hot.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks for the tip, b19.

 

WOW - whatta play! I can't think of an airborne throw from the hole that had as much on it as that one. WOW!

Ozuna is not slow.

[Tbadder]

Personally, I'm excited by Escobar. He may be 21, but he looks like a young 21 to me. As if he's still got lots of upside. Offensively who knows, but I'd stay fairly optimistic because power is often the last skill to develop. Also, I don't see much hope for JJ. He's not nearly as good as other young players, and I don't see him in a Brewer uniform much longer. I also am uncomfortable with his defense and the strain it puts on the pitching staff. Count me among those who are big supporters of this guy.

[DrWood]

the comparisons of escobar to adam everett and John mcdonald are way off-base. escobar has produced much more offense at the same age (they were in college until age 21).

omar vizquel is the best comparable, as far as I'm concerned. If we're lucky he develops a bit more power than vizquel.

[Mass Haas]

More gushing about Escobar in Tom Haudricourt's audio discussion on the D-List today (9:00 minute mark)

 

Sorry about the pimping / gloating, but I've always been higher on Alcides than most of the Brewerfan staff in terms of Power 50 ranking and overall discussion, no disrespect to my compatriots -- still a lot to wait for, but so exciting...

[Mass Haas]

Adam McCalvy MLB.com notes column featuring Escobar

[Hammer]

Just watched that play...HOLY FREAKIN WOW! I knew that he had some range and a nice arm but that was amazing!

[sbrylski]

I was very skeptical just a few months ago, but count me incredibly excited to see this "Inspector Gadget" play in Milwaukee.

[twobrewers]

Also, I don't see much hope for JJ. He's not nearly as good as other young players, and I don't see him in a Brewer uniform much longer.

This could be spun off into an entirely new thread on the MLB side - but what makes you think J.J. is the most likely to be replaced.

 

If the Brewers are committed to improving the defense, isn't Rickie at risk. I can certainly imagine JJ signing a long term contract and being moved to 2B and Escobar taking over at SS.

Unless Rickie absolutely tears the cover off of the ball this year (.850+ OPS) - his defense is negating most of his value. I really think this year determines Rickie's future with the Brewers.

 

(And I will admit it... - I was low on Escobar. D'oh!)

[bullox]

the comparisons of escobar to adam everett and John mcdonald are way off-base.

 

 

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure I did say he would outhit Everett. My comparison was more along the lines of defensive prowess.

[sbrylski]

Also, I don't see much hope for JJ. He's not nearly as good as other young players, and I don't see him in a Brewer uniform much longer.

This could be spun off into an entirely new thread on the MLB side - but what makes you think J.J. is the most likely to be replaced.

 

If the Brewers are committed to improving the defense, isn't Rickie at risk. I can certainly imagine JJ signing a long term contract and being moved to 2B and Escobar taking over at SS.

Unless Rickie absolutely tears the cover off of the ball this year (.850+ OPS) - his defense is negating most of his value. I really think this year determines Rickie's future with the Brewers.

 

(And I will admit it... - I was low on Escobar. D'oh!)

I think its pretty well established that Hardy has much more limited upside with his bat than Weeks. And for all the glory J.J. got for his newfound HR bat last season and the shame Rickie had to endure getting sent to AAA, Weeks actually had the better overall season. Weeks is also under contract a year longer, will maintain a higher OBP (definitely a need for the team), and Hardy's defense is only about average itself. I think Hardy will be the first "baby Brewer" out the door.

[twobrewers]

Are you saying you would prefer ...

 

Rickie's .807 OPS and poor defense

versus

Hardy's .786 and good defense

 

While Rickie certainly has the OBP and lead-off ability, my point was that if he doesn't show major improvements this year - he isn't likely to improve. Fact is, Rickie is a good player. So is J.J.

 

I guess I prefer to keep the glove.

[sbrylski]

Are you saying you would prefer ...

 

Rickie's .807 OPS and poor defense

versus

Hardy's .786 and good defense

 

While Rickie certainly has the OBP and lead-off ability, my point was that if he doesn't show major improvements this year - he isn't likely to improve. Fact is, Rickie is a good player. So is J.J.

 

I guess I prefer to keep the glove.

I prefer the OBP and potential. Hardy has likely about topped out, IMO. He may have a season or two with an .850 OPS, maybe reach 30 HR. But Weeks is on the verge of becoming a consistent .850-.900+ OPS guy with an OBP 40-50+ points higher than Hardy's. I think at most the difference in gloves makes it a push, in which case I'll resign whoever asks for less. We'll know a lot more after this season though, and really I think that we can't go wrong either way, if we are assuming one gets resigned and one leaves.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't necessarily think that if Rickie doesn't improve as much as you'd want this year, that it'd have anything to do with how he'd play in '09,'10, etc. I think what lies behind Sam's point is that Rickie was able to post a far superior OPS (remember, OBP is worth appx. 1.75x SLG) with a BA lower than JJ.

 

I think Hardy showed his rough max in terms of slugging last year. He has a real shot at replicating that repeatedly in his career, with plus to average D (imo). His OBP should get better the next few years, as well. That's really valuable, but even with his struggles, Weeks is such an elite offensive performer that his net worth isn't totally cancelled out. That's the main reason why I love the BB - it doesn't 'slump' nearly as much. The power that I believe Rickie didn't lose from September to March, combined with his BB rate, make me think he's a ticking time bomb. Rickie's going to mash imo, it's just whether it arrives in '08, '09, etc.

 

EDIT: I think Hardy's overall game will make him very valuable, either costing the Crew a sizeable chunk of payroll, or netting somebody/ies. Am I correct in stating that the play by Escobar reflects his overall D, as opposed to being a fluke play by a decent defender? If that's the case, and the comparison in body/player type has turned to Edgar Renteria, we might actually be able to add an amazing glove while remaining equal or only slightly inferior on O. And get something in return.

 

If there were one area I could pick to improve in Weeks's game, it'd be turning the double play. Please stop dropping the ball at the turn, and spiking/airmailing/turn-signaling throws to Prince. We love you.

[Gopher74]

Also, I don't see much hope for JJ. He's not nearly as good as other young players, and I don't see him in a Brewer uniform much longer. I also am uncomfortable with his defense and the strain it puts on the pitching staff. Count me among those who are big supporters of this guy.

The strain that Hardy's defense puts on the pitchers? Hardy's defense doesn't put any "strain" on the pitchers. His defense is just fine.

 

Man, have we gotten so spoiled that we now don't see much hope for a very good defensive Shortstop who hits 20-25 HR's now?