Cubs could trade Ramirez?

[trwi7]

LINK

 

Seems kind of ridiculous to me. One of their best offensive players so they can pick up A-Rod who is top 3 in the game but why would they trade him? Money apparently isn't an issue and A-Rod used to play SS. Why wouldn't they just let A-Rod play SS and trade Theriot or use him off the bench?

 

Of course I'm not complaining if they don't listen to my advice.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

[Gopher74]

LINK

 

Seems kind of ridiculous to me. One of their best offensive players so they can pick up A-Rod who is top 3 in the game but why would they trade him? Money apparently isn't an issue and A-Rod used to play SS. Why wouldn't they just let A-Rod play SS and trade Theriot or use him off the bench?

 

Of course I'm not complaining if they don't listen to my advice.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

Because they seem to think that Theriot, a light hitting 27 year old rookie SS is the second coming of Ernie Banks. I don't get it, but after arguing with Cub fans about him being better than Hardy, it's pretty obvious they overvalue him.

 

But yea, if I'm the Cubs you'd better believe I move Theriot to 2nd, and DeRosa to RF. DeRosa has a cannon for an arm(for a 2nd basemen) so it's strong enough to play RF, and he actually went back on the ball alright. Theriot's a nice player...I guess. Nothing special. But them getting rid of ARam would take the sting outta getting ARod. I'd almost hope they singed Arod if they dumped ARam. Spend an extra 16-17 million on a player who really isn't all THAT much better? That takes away a starting pitcher, OF'er, or whatever.

 

Plus, it's not like Arod's ever won anything.

[TooLiveBrew]

yea, those MVPs are a total joke.

[Gopher74]

yea, those MVPs are a total joke.

Wow. I guess part of my post went over your head. Not sure which.

 

The part where I say that ARam+having another 15-16 million to spend to improve the cubs in other areas would be worse for the Brewers than the Cubs investing another 30 million into ARod?

I guess having big bad ARod on the Cubs doesn't scare me quite as much as you.

 

When you spend 18-19 million over the next 7 years on Soriano(who's likely about 34 years old)

30 Million on ARod.

13 Million on DLee who's had ONE great power year, and

16 Million on Zabrano, 10 million on Lilly, and 7 million on Marquis...that equals 95 million dollars on 6 players.

 

So yea, MVP's are great. Call me when he actually gets a hit in a pressure situation.

 

 

 

(Yes, I realize he got a hit in the last game).

 

[homer]

"So yea, MVP's are great. Call me when he actually gets a hit in a pressure situation. "

 

Fielder only hit like .257 with RISP. Is he not clutch?

[sbrylski]

Theroit->ARod - Scary upgrade

Ramirez->ARod - Nice, but though ARod is amazing, the millions of extra dollars could probably go towards next years FA pitching...Sheets and Santana both on the market, wowza!

[Menotti80]

"You and 24 of your closest friends could have won the Central Division.

 

But the good news is it won't be any tougher next year, and the Cubs ought to repeat."

 

 

This is why I hate Cubs fans/writers/announcers.

 

I cant wait until we "sneak up" on them next year. I'm going to make it a habbit to read this idiot's column all of next year... if he still has a job.

[sbrylski]

"But the good news is it won't be any tougher next year, and the Cubs ought to repeat."

 

Hmm...Are the Brewers and Cardinals not allowed to participate in anything this offseason? And we all know that once players reach the age of 24 its all downhill from there. I could see Gallardo beginning to decline early because of his body type...or something...

[TheBrewer]

I can't imagine if they dealt Ramirez they would get a load back. It would all depend on the salary. If the new team is picking up most of the salary, don't look for much back, if the Cubs pickup most of the salary look for something pretty well back, and if it's split between the two teams your looking at a good guy.. depends on his trade value. I think that is pretty stupid, I figured all along they would move A Rod to SS. Thats what I had thought the media was talking about.. obviously not maybe.. "o ya its only another 15 million for the cubs".... found that quote funny

[Gopher74]

"So yea, MVP's are great. Call me when he actually gets a hit in a pressure situation. "

 

Fielder only hit like .257 with RISP. Is he not clutch?

Actually, he hit .270 with RISP with a .443 OBP, and he hit .321 close and late with a .459 OBP and a 1.046 OPS.

 

But for the record, that IS one of the biggest issues I had with Prince. He didn't trust his teammates, and swung at bad pitches quite a bit earlier in the season. When Hart started to hit well in the 5 spot, Prince started taking more walks and waiting for good pitches to drive.

 

But there are a couple MAJOR issues here.

 

1st-Prince is 23 years old.

2nd-He doesn't make 30 million dollars.

3rd-he hasn't been to the playoffs making this entire conversation moot.

 

 

 

But apparently somewhere along the line here someone made the mistake of thinking that I don't think Arod's a great player. Once again, my point point was that Arod is better for US than Aram, and another 16 million dollars to be spend on improving other area's. Not sure why that's not landing.

 

[M Skjellyfetti]

Dude, dial down the condescension a couple notches, please. We're all Brewer fans; no reason we can't be civil. I somewhat agree that the Cubs ditching A-Ram for A-Rod would be a whole lot better for us than them ditching Theriot for A-Rod. However, I think that they could get a pretty good return for A-Ram--possibly even an upgrade at shortstop or SP--and therefore A-Rod and no A-Ram would probably still be pretty bad for the Brewers. I also don't agree with you about A-Rod's alleged post-season struggles, but there's a whole different (albeit locked) thread about that.

 

On another note, the writer ticked me off with that line about the Cubs repeating next year, too. I wonder if the guy even pays attention to other teams in the Central.

[mothershipconnection]

Ramirez has 4 years and $67MM left on his deal, which will likely look pretty good by then end of this winter - though not as good as it looked before the cheap $8MM 2007 salary. He's good for an OPS in the .900+ range, plays 3B, and won't turn 32 until a couple months before the deal expires. He'll have value, possibly even to the Yankees if ARod walks, which would make for a pretty interesting scenario.

[Gopher74]

Dude, dial down the condescension a couple notches, please. We're all Brewer fans; no reason we can't be civil. I somewhat agree that the Cubs ditching A-Ram for A-Rod would be a whole lot better for us than them ditching Theriot for A-Rod. However, I think that they could get a pretty good return for A-Ram--possibly even an upgrade at shortstop or SP--and therefore A-Rod and no A-Ram would probably still be pretty bad for the Brewers. I also don't agree with you about A-Rod's alleged post-season struggles, but there's a whole different (albeit locked) thread about that.

 

On another note, the writer ticked me off with that line about the Cubs repeating next year, too. I wonder if the guy even pays attention to other teams in the Central.

I kinda get how it works here. If someone makes a sarcastic comment to you, so long as they've got 3,000 posts, it's alright, but if you respond in kind, then it's a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, if the Cubs can get some pitching back for ARam, and sign ARod, it's obviously going to be a upgrade for the Cubs, I just don't think it'll be as significant an upgrade as if they keep ARam and go after someone to fill another hole.

 

[mothershipconnection]

I kinda get how it works here. If someone makes a sarcastic comment to you, so long as they've got 3,000 posts, it's alright, but if you respond in kind, then it's a problem.

 

When TLB responded with said sarcastic comment:

yea, those MVPs are a total joke....

You responded with:

Wow. I guess part of my post went over your head. Not sure which.

 

Nobody got on you for it, as you were, as you said, responding to a sarcastic comment with a sarcastic comment (note though that eye for an eye is not board policy). But then you added:

 

Not sure why that's not landing.

 

...which wasn't in response to a sarcastic comment, and led to you being called out, and not in a rude, arrogant, or distasteful way, IMO.

 

Arguments, though annoying to bystanders when they sidetrack a thread, are the nature of the beast any time you're discussing anything that isn't completely concrete (such as the relative merits of different players). When arguments arise, we need to at least keep them civil.

[TooLiveBrew]

I kinda get how it works here. If someone makes a sarcastic comment to you, so long as they've got 3,000 posts, it's alright, but if you respond in kind, then it's a problem.

 

I was sarcastic because you made the claim that "it's not like A-Rod's ever won anything," therefore somehow counteracting his impressive production year after year. In reality, he's won the MVP twice, and nearly any player on earth would trade their soul for being able to replicate what Rodriguez produces in his 'off' year(s). The Cubs can afford to add any players they wish, so the notion that spending more (even if it's a lot more) to upgrade one spot will handcuff other(s) doesn't sway me - that's just me though.

 

(EDIT to avoid piling on, given MSC's post...)

 

Back on topic, this is something I posted in the locked thread M Skjelly referenced -

 

"Rodriguez's Close and Late (defined as: "results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied, or with the potential tying run at least on deck") 2007 line reads as follows - .293/.418/.520/.938

Runner(s) on base + 2 outs - .292/.399/.577/.976

Runner(s) in scoring position + 2 outs - .302/.429/.512/.941"

 

In addition, his line simply with RISP is .333/.460/.678/1.138. I know you're not arguing he isn't good, but those numbers aren't good, they're great, and they come in the situations in which you imply he's 'never done anything' (paraphrasing). I do apologize for being sarcastic, but you have to admit that your claim was a bit wild - especially since I think you were referring to postseason title(s), a category in which Rodriguez's posting a 2.000 OPS wouldn't necessarily assure victory.

[JohnBriggs12]

Theriot faltered badly down the stretch (.202 in September). All year long there were people saying he wasn't cut out to be an everyday shortstop and his finish and overall very modest numbers backed those people up. Some fans and some in the media love Theriot, but not all and even those would replace him in a heartbeat for A-Rod.

 

The Cubs are pretty well set everywhere. The two positions they could improve are shortstop and right field.

 

No way they deal Ramirez. If they did get A-Rod, it would be to play short.

[lukevan]

If they did get A-Rod, it would be to play short.

 

 

I would definitely think so. Although, do baseball people think he can still play SS effectively? I really don't know, but it seems to me he may have lost some range since his days playing shortstop. Just asking because I'm not sure.

[endaround]

If they were smart they'd sign ARod to play 2B and dump DeRosa at his high, but its the Cubs.

[billyhallfan]

endaround, was that supposed to be in blue, right?

[mothershipconnection]

No way they deal Ramirez. If they did get A-Rod, it would be to play short.

 

At worst, they'd be complete idiots for not keeping Ramirez for one more year and absorbing that cost to take their big shot. They could always trade him after next season. If they won it all, I'm sure they'd be happy to take on the cost. Really, they could salary dump Jones, DeRosa, and Dempster to clear up quite a bit of that money.

[Postseason2006]

A Ram is also a bit better in the field. Remember last year when A Rod couldn't throw to say his life. I hope the Cubs do it, so when A Rod is struggling him and Shambrano, they can have two psychos.