Six dead in Crandon shooting

[TracyThom]

I'm not placing the blame on the suspect snapping because he was a young police officer. Mine was more of a general statement.

 

The suspect Peterson was hired part-time by Crandon PD in June of 2006. He was hired full time by Forest County in September of 2006. He must have been 19 when he was hired full-time. This really isn't that rare. I'm familiar with a small town in Sauk County who have hired local kids at 19.

 

If you click here: https://wilenet.org/html/career/wanemplstds.pdf you can see the basic employment standards to become a police officer in Wisconsin. These are the basics. Many departments will not hire you unless you are 21 and have a Bachelor's Degree. You need to have an Associate's Degree, but you have 5 years after hire to obtain it.

[Fatter than Joey]

One of the very first thoughts I had upon reading this was, "20 year old deputy?" Maybe Forest County has trouble recruiting for law enforcement, or maybe this person had law enforcement in the family (kind of like a legacy).

 

This is a quote I read...

 

A state patrol officer said the shooter was an employee of the Forest County Sheriff's Department and a part-time officer for the Crandon Police Department.

 

My guess is that this means he probably works in the County as a dispatcher (or in some sort of support capacity) but not as an officer, and works for the Crandon village/town as an officer.

 

I can't believe you can be a cop at 20.

 

My dad was a chief deputy and my FIL was a sheriff, and I have a ton of cousins/in-laws that are in law enforcement, so I have some insight into this (I think)

 

Most counties, and larger cities in WIS., require a 4-year degree (not specific to law enforcement nec.) so by default, almost all of your state/county hires are going to over the age of 22, and probably have the experience and maturity that comes with completing a 4 year program, when they start their career in law enforcement.

 

Now, this kid was hired as an officer by a small municipality. The problem that the municipalities have is that they are fishing on the shallow end of the hiring pool -- and often times the villages/towns pay about $8-$10 per hour for their police staff -- of course anyone completing a 4 year program is not going to submit their application to a small municipality.

 

To give a little more depth -- Most small municipalities will hire a "chief" at a pretty good salary, buy a squad car, buy some computer equipment -- and then have just enough money left in the budget to hire part time officers to work evenings and weekends when the chief (who works 7-3 M-F) is off the clock. Unfortunately a lot of time the poop hits the fan on evenings and weekends, and then you have kids responding to things.

 

Basically small villages/towns have 2 options, the first is to have their own police force, with gaps in coverage and inexperienced officers, or the second option is to lease officers from the county and have better coverage and more experienced/trained officers -- there are 2 sides to that argument -- but usually at the end of the day the small municipalities will opt for their own force, because a lot of the village board people are too entangled with the police chief, and the cheaper officers are a affordable reality.

 

but for the most part, small town cops handle a ton of domestic disturbances and the like, and need a calm, steady hand.

 

This is false -- I live in a town half the size of Crandon, and we often have very young officers onboard -- 90% of what they do is operate the local speed traps (which are a mechanism to legitimatize the local police force). When they are not operating the speed traps, they are telling people their dogs are barking too much, or telling kids to get lights on their bikes. Whenever there is a domestic disturbance, the county is almost immediately called in, as most of the small towns do not have the manpower or facilities to deal with people getting arrested (Only one officer on duty, no detaining facilities). If anyone is getting arrested it is going to be done by a county officer, who will "outrank" the local force.

 

My point is Brett, if he showed that poor of judgement in his social life, it's easy to see him losing it on the job. Cops work with kids all the time. You get my point.

 

I don't get your point.

 

1.) He wasn't on the job. He was a guy who lost it, that happened to be a police officer.

 

2.) It's not as if people quit going on shooting sprees when they are 23.

 

Certainly I would agree that age/inexperience makes a better officer, however you would be hardpressed to produce evidence (generally speaking) that at 23 he would have been less likely to shoot a bunch of people.

 

The screening process failed here -- There are people that shouldn't be police officers (or teachers) regardless of their age. This guy was a bad hire and 20, and he would have been a bad hire at 25/35/45..

[Brian the Automator]

This happened 3 blocks from where my brother works. One of the girls worked at the Subway he went to every day... ugh.

[Ralph Wiggum]

This happened only 25 miles east of where I live. I got a call from a law enforcement person I know at about noon yesterday, when the gunman was still on the loose. He wanted to know if I (through any media connections I had up here) had any updates. It was the first I had heard about it. I was actually on the golf course when I got the call. Pretty sobering.

 

They locked down the whole city, and every business was closed. Crandon is actually a nice, little town. You would never expect something like that to happen, especially up in these parts.

[PeaveyFury]

Sounds like he did it with a rifle, per CNN.

 

I was figuring it was probably something where he went to the ex GF's place, she was with other guys there, and he pulled his gun and things went bad from there, but if he did it with a rifle, that makes me think he went there with the intention of killing.

[PlayerHader]

Latest says that he went there hoping to patch things up with the ex and the crowd there wasn't very receptive. Ended up the victims called him a "worthless pig" and that's when he snapped.

 

Here's the latest from JSonline...http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=672136

 

So he went to a friend's place early the next morning, and they immediately called 911. What could possibly be the excuse for it taking so long to get a response to those calls? At least those people were unharmed.

[stoutdude04]

I dont get why he got shot from after walking 50 yards. Did he try running? Defending himself...I am kind of tired and maybe I just mis-read it.

[TooLiveBrew]

No, you didn't misread it stoutdude. The article was ambiguous, probably since the reporter has no clue what really happened.

[RyDogg66]

How do we know that the reporter has no idea whats she is talking about? Yes, it is unclear why he was shot from that article, but other than that the reporter seems to have a handle on the story.

[TooLiveBrew]

misinterpreted what I mean, RyDogg - I didn't mean she 'has no idea what she's talking about' (as in, a hack), just that there is literally no way she could have any clue of what really happened. I should've been more clear, sorry. Unless the law enforcement would release exactly what ensued, no one aside from the eyewitnesses (which at that point were likely only l.e. officials) could possibly know what happened, how, and why. That stuck out as odd to me (the 'he walked 50 yards...' ) when I read the article, too.

[RyDogg66]

I agree with you TLD, especially when else where I have read that law enforcement said he was killed "after an exchange of gunfire"

 

But the exchange of gunfire doesnt make sense if he was so calm - unless it was suicide by cop.

[PeaveyFury]

I think you may have it there, Rydogg.

[PeaveyFury]

More details:

 

Peterson was located in a residence in Argonne, north of Crandon, hours later and exchanged shots with law enforcement officers. Van Hollen said that is when Peterson was shot, but the cause of his death is still under investigation.

[hawing]

The JSOnline account makes it sound like 911 was called multiple times by multiple parties. I wonder what was behind the delay in response.

[PlayerHader]

That's exactly what I was questioning hawing. You'd think they'd be there before the caller hung up the phone.

[AdvantageSchneider]

It sounds like there is a lot more that is going to come out on this story. IMO the authorities would be smart to get out the whole story ASAP, so it doesn't keep coming out in drips and drabs and staying in the limelight for weeks. It's not like they need to protect the investigation for a trial or anything.

[TracyThom]

The JSOnline account makes it sound like 911 was called multiple times by multiple parties. I wonder what was behind the delay in response.

More than likely, when the 911 calls came in, SWAT was being paged out to the address. It's not like the SWAT team is waiting at the police department 24/7 to respond to calls. I'm sure most SWAT guys were at home and responded when they got the page. Besides, just because the family did not see any law enforcement officers, doesn't mean that there were none there. I can almost guarantee you that officers were on scene, but had set up a perimeter and were concealed from view. The nutjob had already fired on one officer. Why should Dirty Harry go storming in alone and create a hostage situation?

 

My guess is that this means he probably works in the County as a dispatcher (or in some sort of support capacity) but not as an officer, and works for the Crandon village/town as an officer.

No, he was a deputy for the Sheriff's Department. I don't know if he was a road deputy or a jail deputy, but he was not a dispatcher or in a support capacity.

 

Most counties, and larger cities in WIS., require a 4-year degree (not specific to law enforcement nec.) so by default, almost all of your state/county hires are going to over the age of 22, and probably have the experience and maturity that comes with completing a 4 year program, when they start their career in law enforcement.

Negative. Very few departments require a 4-year degree. Go to Wilenet.org and then click on "Employment Opportunities." Most departments' requirements are 60 college credits.

 

Now, this kid was hired as an officer by a small municipality. The problem that the municipalities have is that they are fishing on the shallow end of the hiring pool -- and often times the villages/towns pay about $8-$10 per hour for their police staff -- of course anyone completing a 4 year program is not going to submit their application to a small municipality.

Also negative. There is intense competition for any police job in Wisconsin. Even small towns will have at least 30+ applicants for one opening if the job is submitted to Wilenet. I've never heard of any agencies that pay $8-$10 for a full-time officer. The question is: Was this job opening advertised state-wide or was it advertised locally because they had a candidate (Peterson) in mind? I have a feeling that some higher-ups at the Sheriff's Department knew Peterson and knew that he was going to school to become a police officer so they hired him on without a full hiring process.

 

I live in a town half the size of Crandon, and we often have very young officers onboard -- 90% of what they do is operate the local speed traps (which are a mechanism to legitimatize the local police force). When they are not operating the speed traps, they are telling people their dogs are barking too much, or telling kids to get lights on their bikes. Whenever there is a domestic disturbance, the county is almost immediately called in, as most of the small towns do not have the manpower or facilities to deal with people getting arrested (Only one officer on duty, no detaining facilities). If anyone is getting arrested it is going to be done by a county officer, who will "outrank" the local force.

This is way off-base. You are painting small-town law enforcement with a very broad brush. Not every small town in Rosendale. Fatter Than Joey, have you ever been to Hurley? Are you telling me that officers in Hurley rarely have to deal with domestic disturbances? I'm sure with all those bars and strip clubs, that's mainly what they deal with. Have you ever been to Arena, population around 800? I know for a fact that there are domestic disturbances there every weekend. There are loads of small towns with lots of turds living there.

 

You couldn't be farther off-base when talking about domestic disturbances. The reason the sheriff's department is called in on domestics is for back-up purposes. (Unless it is at a time when no local officers are on-duty) Officers should never go to a domestic by themselves. You always want two officers there. Also, there is no such thing as county deputies outranking the local police force. I'm not sure where you heard that from, but it is false. Anyone arrested goes to the county jail. That goes from small towns like Crandon to large cities like Madison. Madison does not have its own jail. They go to the Dane County Jail.

 

The main issue here is that the suspect was hired without a psychological exam. I've heard that the county could not afford to put each candidate through a psych exam, but that's hogwash. I know of agencies smaller than Crandon that have psych evals as part of the hiring process. I can almost guarantee that the State Legislature will make psych evals part of the hiring process, and probably bump up the minimum age to 21 too.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't know if he was a road deputy or a jail deputy, but he was not a dispatcher or in a support capacity.

 

Fair enough -- At the time it wasn't stated clearly what sort of capacity he worked for the county as -- I didn't/don't think it is/was fair to presume that the suspect was a county road deputy that went rogue, like it was initially painted.

 

Negative. Very few departments require a 4-year degree.

 

Technically you are correct -- I should have phrased my statement better. You are correct to say that people can apply with less than a 4 year degree, however effectively given the competitive nature of the market -- you are not (likely) to get hired w/o the degree (in the larger counties esp.). I am aware of people that have worked in dispatch (e.g.) while getting their degree, but they are not on the road at that time. Neither my father or father-in-law hired many (if any) potential officers w/o degrees -- certainly people w/o degrees applied though.

 

I've never heard of any agencies that pay $8-$10 for a full-time officer.

 

I have never made this claim -- I think I was clear in stating that small-town chiefs are paid well, and your part time force that fills in, when the chief is off-duty (evenings/weekends) are not paid very well (considering the nature of their work). I know from our village minutes though, this is what the part-timers are paid.

 

There is intense competition for any police job in Wisconsin. Even small towns will have at least 30+ applicants for one opening if the job is submitted to Wilenet.

 

This keeps the wages down for part-time officers.

 

I have a feeling that some higher-ups at the Sheriff's Department knew Peterson and knew that he was going to school to become a police officer so they hired him on without a full hiring process.

 

You may be right about this.

 

This is way off-base. You are painting small-town law enforcement with a very broad brush.

 

Well -- Since neither you or I know the police makeup of every town and village in Wisc., broad brush talking is a necessary evil. I think it is very obvious that a town like Hurley, which is more touristy oriented, is going to have different policing needs than a rural farming community such as the one I live in. I am making general statements based on my experiences in living with a lot of people that have earned a living in Wis. law enforcement.

 

You couldn't be farther off-base when talking about domestic disturbances. The reason the sheriff's department is called in on domestics is for back-up purposes. (Unless it is at a time when no local officers are on-duty) Officers should never go to a domestic by themselves. You always want two officers there. Anyone arrested goes to the county jail.

 

Again, I think I was very clear, when I stated that the county officers get immediately called in on domestics (in small towns) because the small towns do not have the manpower or facilities to deal with arresting people. Generally speaking, a lot of the smaller towns will only have one officer on duty, and rely on the county for backup and detainment. You have essentially restated what I did, using more words.

 

Also, there is no such thing as county deputies outranking the local police force. I'm not sure where you heard that from, but it is false.

 

Every town/village has some sort of jurisdictional cooperative arrangements with the county that they reside in -- certainly it differs from village to village-- I put "outrank" in quotes, as I intended the word to be used loosely. However, generally speaking the county will have a more absolute jurisdiction than the villages and county officers will be relied on more when disturbances require investigations/arrests --as the county will be the one making the case/prosecutions.

 

I think Al had made some sort of statement about 20 year old officers working in situations that would require maturity and I wanted to address that...

 

First, I agree that maturity/experience helps an officer in domestic situations -- however, I don't think this specific ordeal was age dependent in the least bit.

 

Second, most of your county officers are going to be over the age of 20, with a college degree or have been on the job for a reasonable amount of time.

 

Third, When 20 year old officers are hired, it is generally in the small towns on a part time basis (and that is in a large part dictated by the supply and demand of officer wages) -- while I realize domestic disturbances happen -- the VAST majority of what they do, is write speeding tickets, and enforce village ordinances. When domestic disturbances happen county officers are dispatched as well, so it is not likely a 20 year old is going to be dealing with an episode of COPS by him/herself. If 20 year old officers are hired by larger counties, I suspect they are supervised (theoretically) very closely, and have a senior officer with them that is going to take the lead on most calls.

 

Ideally it would be super if towns/villages were policed by veterans around the clock -- but small-town budget realities dictate otherwise, and I suppose young officers have to cut their teeth somewhere.

 

The main issue here is that the suspect was hired without a psychological exam. I've heard that the county could not afford to put each candidate through a psych exam, but that's hogwash.

 

I agree here 100% that the screening process failed. I think psych exams cost about $500 so that's not trivial. I suspect the temptation is pretty large when a chief "knows" a local kid, and assumes that the kid is "ok" and can save the town $500, not to mention the cost of evaluating other applicants.

[TracyThom]

I don't want to split hairs because we are getting way off-topic. It's apparent to anyone who has read my posts that I am a law enforcement officer, so I obviously have some insight on this topic.

 

I started my career in 1999 working for little Spring Green, population 1,400. I was given a psych eval prior to hire. In the 18 months I was there, I wrote less than 20 traffic tickets. On the other hand, I investigated 6 sexual assaults, numerous burglaries, lots of drug offenses, and other serious crimes. Within the first month I was there, we had an officer involved shooting because a burglary suspect rammed a coworker's squad car, trapping him inside. However, I spent most of my time being "officer friendly," because that was what was expected of me. I parked my squad on Highway 23 and gave directions to House on the Rock or Taliesin. I filled in for the crossing guards. I did foot patrol at night and made sure the downtown businesses were all secure. I spoke to the driver's ed classes, etc.

 

FTJ, you are right on numerous points. I was 21 when I started there. It was my first LE job. I had my Bachelor's at the time, and I was green as grass. When I was hired, I hadn't even been to the police academy. It wasn't until 3 months after hire that I was sent to the academy.

 

As far as domestic disturbances in small towns, the county was not always the first option. As a Spring Green officer, I backed up Arena PD (as well as Lone Rock or Plain PD) more often than the county because I was so close in proximity and the County was usually a lot farther away.

 

As far as wages, it is union contracts that set the payscale. Deerfield Police Department (which was recently eliminated by the Village Board) had 3 full-time officers, and they were union. Crandon PD has 3 full-time officers and 12 part-timers. Of the 12 part-timers, 11 of them are employed full-time by another law enforcement agency. In the department I work now, we have one officer who is employed part-time by a neighboring agency. However, he only works approximately 3 times a year, and that's when they have their big drunk festival. Forest County has more than 30 full-timers, so I can guarantee they have a union. I think they hired Peterson because he was local, and probably was familiar to a lot of the officers and supervisors.

[Fatter than Joey]

It's apparent to anyone who has read my posts that I am a law enforcement officer, so I obviously have some insight on this topic.

 

Obviously http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif. Certainly there is going to be a lot of differences, even with the sheriffs/supervisors. I certainly am in no position to argue with your first-hand experience, but I just wanted to provide a little depth to the topic of young officers. I am bothered that people seem to focused on the age of the officer, rather than the potential lack of adherence to hiring policies. I know our village pays $8-$10 per hour for the part-timers, and you just are not going to get seasoned vets at that wage.

 

I think they hired Peterson because he was local, and probably was familiar to a lot of the officers and supervisors.

 

I agree 100% -- and I think this is where eventually people will have to answer some tough questions.

[Fatter than Joey]

They are saying that Peterson died from self-inflicted gun shot wounds.

 

Three shots to the head.

 

The first 2 under the chin, and then one to the temple. That seems unreal to me.

 

Van Hollen said it appears that Peterson used his own .40-caliber Glock pistol to fatally shoot himself at a property miles from the murder scene.

 

Van Hollen said Peterson was shot once in the left biceps from a distance and then three times in the head from a gun at close range.

 

The attorney general said two shots went in under Peterson's chin, while the third fatal shot entered through the right side of his head.

 

"These three head wounds are consistent with self-inflicted wounds and not consistent with long-range rifle fire," Van Hollen said.

[jason21nl]

They are saying that Peterson died from self-inflicted gun shot wounds.

 

Three shots to the head.

 

The first 2 under the chin, and then one to the temple. That seems unreal to me.

 

Van Hollen said it appears that Peterson used his own .40-caliber Glock pistol to fatally shoot himself at a property miles from the murder scene.

 

Van Hollen said Peterson was shot once in the left biceps from a distance and then three times in the head from a gun at close range.

 

The attorney general said two shots went in under Peterson's chin, while the third fatal shot entered through the right side of his head.

 

"These three head wounds are consistent with self-inflicted wounds and not consistent with long-range rifle fire," Van Hollen said.

 

is that even possible? I would think that after the first shot to the head you no longer have control over anything, let alone get off 2 more to the head.

[homer]

Yeah, I thought that seemed really strange.

[TooLiveBrew]

hate to be morbid, but could he have downed himself with one of the three shots, and then the officers followed up with a couple at close range (which obviously wouldn't be very good to admit)?

[patrickgpe]

could of, but its also possible he got hit in the arm and just killed himself.