Rotoworld 2008 roster projections

[endaround]

He isn't sub par. He was a top three catcher in 2006.

[Gopher74]

He isn't sub par. He was a top three catcher in 2006.

You mean when he threw out 7 of 40 base stealers?

 

But let me guess, he had a good range factor?

 

[dadofandrew]

Estrada has thrown out a higher % of runners each of the last 3 years. Barrett isn't a bad option to be a backup, mind you, but you're just making a horizontal change, at best, replacing Johnny with him. It's easy to project him to be a 10-15% step down.

[Gopher74]

Estrada has thrown out a higher % of runners each of the last 3 years. Barrett isn't a bad option to be a backup, mind you, but you're just making a horizontal change, at best, replacing Johnny with him. It's easy to project him to be a 10-15% step down.

Right, which is why IMO, you move him out from behind the plate, a move that has been talked about for some time, and platoon him.

 

How often did you want to see Estrada taken out late in games last year? Bring in a David Ross, Ramon Castro, whoever, just a defensive catcher, and you've still got a guy on your team who can come in and catch if need be.

 

I'm not quite sure why it's so hard to envision him in LF. I mean, I doubt he's worse than Adam Dunn, Carlos Lee, or about half the LF'ers in the league.

 

[wallus]

Much better options out there then converting a catcher to play outfield and make him below average for that position. In house gross/mench or dillon is better for example and probably cheaper.

[Gopher74]

Much better options out there then converting a catcher to play outfield and make him below average for that position. In house gross/mench or dillon is better for example and probably cheaper.

You think Dillon's a .295/.380/.967 hitter vs left handers? And that was as a catcher.

 

And by the way, didn't we convert Dillon to the outfield?

 

I'm pretty sure that Dillon isn't better, and Mench won't be cheaper.

 

And Mench's three year splits vs left handers;

.305/.361/.917

Not sure how either are better options. In fact, I'm quite certain neither are.

 

 

 

PLUS, this brings us back to having more roster flexibility.

 

[endaround]

Mench won't be cheaper? Mench is going to get $3.5 million at most, Barrett will get a 3 year/$21 million contract at least. Catchers who hit like he did for 2004-2006 don't make reserve outfielder money.

[Gopher74]

Mench won't be cheaper? Mench is going to get $3.5 million at most, Barrett will get a 3 year/$21 million contract at least. Catchers who hit like he did for 2004-2006 don't make reserve outfielder money.

Mench made 3.4 million last year. Show me a player who was healthy for a full season who "only" got a hundred K more as they moved toward free agency? He'll likely end up around 4.5 million.

 

And as for Barrett, he hit .241 with a .288 OBP last year, and he was awful behind the plate. Again, there's been talk for years about moving him out from behind the plate. I don't see him making 21 over 3. I think it's more likely that he's going to get a one year deal, possibly with incentives.

 

[pogokat]

1. i don't think there's any way a guy like barrett will agree to be a platoon outfielder

 

2. signing a guy to play out of position reeks of sean berry

 

3. Mench is going to be about 3 million next year...i wouldnt be surprised to see barrett get a multi year contract for 5 million a season

 

4. barrett hit .222/.286/.413/.699 against lefties this year, and .254/.320/.440 in 454 career ab's against lefties...

 

in fact, his platoon split is pretty much negligible...

 

i would much rather play mench/gwynn/dillon than sign Barrett

[pogokat]

Mench isn't a free agent unless the brewers cut him, and there's no way he gets 4.5 million dollars

[endaround]

Show me a corner outfielder who hit .367/.305/.441 making any type of money. Mench is like Capuano, neither will see a large raise based upon what they did in 2007. Mench has no arby case. And if released he'd take a huge pay cut.

[Gopher74]

Show me a corner outfielder who hit .367/.305/.441 making any type of money. Mench is like Capuano, neither will see a large raise based upon what they did in 2007. Mench has no arby case. And if released he'd take a huge pay cut.

Yet you think that Vargas will get double what he got this year?

I guess I don't see the consistency.

 

[Gopher74]

Mench isn't a free agent unless the brewers cut him, and there's no way he gets 4.5 million dollars

Who said he was a Free Agent?

 

But if the Brewers keep him, which under endarounds scenario we would, he's not going to make the same as he made the year before another year into arbitration.

 

He went from 2.80 to 3.4 after a poor year last year. Now he's going to make less than that? Not gonna happen.

 

[Gopher74]

1. i don't think there's any way a guy like barrett will agree to be a platoon outfielder

 

2. signing a guy to play out of position reeks of sean berry

 

3. Mench is going to be about 3 million next year...i wouldnt be surprised to see barrett get a multi year contract for 5 million a season

 

4. barrett hit .222/.286/.413/.699 against lefties this year, and .254/.320/.440 in 454 career ab's against lefties...

 

in fact, his platoon split is pretty much negligible...

 

i would much rather play mench/gwynn/dillon than sign Barrett

1-When he's coming of a .241/.288 season he's not going to have a whole lotta choice.

 

2-It reeks of every team every year in MLB.

 

3-Mench isn't going to make less than he did this year. At the absolutely least he's making 4 million if he stays with the Brewers.

 

4-I'm going off his 3 years splits coming into this year. Obviously he had a bad year this year. If he hadn't, this wouldn't even be a discussion. But three year splits of .295/.380 and .967 are pretty solid. I'd expect those three years to be the norm rather than this past year. But you can't argue that he's TOO good to take a platoon, and then that he's not good enough to be worthy of it.

 

[pogokat]

you really need to back off the condescension...Brewerfan is a very civil place and we'd like to keep it that way

 

if the brewers offer arby to mench, he will not take the kind of raise you are suggesting...if the release him, he's going to wind up making less than a million

[Gopher74]

Show me a corner outfielder who hit .367/.305/.441 making any type of money. Mench is like Capuano, neither will see a large raise based upon what they did in 2007. Mench has no arby case. And if released he'd take a huge pay cut.

And if he was released, then your argument that we've got better options wouldn't hold true.

 

[endaround]

Huh? The Brewers could find better options. Dillon will likely outhit Mench. As for Vargas, he was a starter and had 11 wins, both big thigns for arby.

[Gopher74]

you really need to back off the condescension...Brewerfan is a very civil place and we'd like to keep it that way

 

if the brewers offer arby to mench, he will not take the kind of raise you are suggesting...if the release him, he's going to wind up making less than a million

I don't know what you're talking about to be honest. Why don't you point out what I said that was condescending?

And obviously if they let him go he's not going to make that. Endaround said we had better options on the roster who were cheaper. If we released him, then he wouldn't be on the roster.

 

But if we do offer him arbitration, he absolutely will get a raise. Players do NOT make less than the year before in arbitration.

 

But I'd REALLY like to know what you keep talking about my posts not being civil.

 

[Gopher74]

Huh? The Brewers could find better options. Dillon will likely outhit Mench. As for Vargas, he was a starter and had 11 wins, both big thigns for arby.

Ok, well you mentioned Mench, so that was your example that I was responding to.

 

AS for Dillon, I like him as well, but the guys 32 and he's just a rookie. I do like his minor league numbers, but I'm not sure you want to count on the guy after a handful of AB's.

 

For the record however, I would be alright with going with Gross and Dillon. I just think you guys are dismissing the Barrett suggestion(which by the way would not exactly ensure that Dillon and Gross wouldn't be back). And I really think you're wrong about him. It's not about what he SHOULD make, it's about how arbitration works. You make more each year almost without fail(obviously their are some exceptions, but usually when a guy was hurt all year). Obviously you make MORE if you have a good year, but even when you have a sub-par year, you're still going to receive an increase.

 

[pogokat]

it's in the emphasis you've been putting on certain words like "NOT" and "REALLY" as well as the implied tone in a phrase like "not gonna happen."

 

It's possible that you have no intent of sounding condescending, but you are coming off that way in your rhetoric

[brewers19]

Gopher74, check your inbox.

[Gopher74]

it's in the emphasis you've been putting on certain words like "NOT" and "REALLY" as well as the implied tone in a phrase like "not gonna happen."

 

It's possible that you have no intent of sounding condescending, but you are coming off that way in your rhetoric

So stating that players do not make less as they progress in arbitration is condescending? No, it's simply disagreeing. And those appeared only after you said I was being condescending. I was curious as to what would make you say that in response to the post you initially made the reference to?

 

And yea, I was placing emphasis on those words...because I strongly disagreed with the sentiment.

 

But is it any less condescending than you telling me that Kevin Mench will not make more money this year?

 

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Kevin Mench and playoffs should not be in any sentence together that involves the Brewers. If we haven't "upgraded" there by opening day, we're going to settle for another 80+ win season

[pogokat]

Not gonna happen. Kevin Mench will NOT make more in arby this year. He REALLY won't get a raise. You cant argue that he's TOO good to make less than 4 million, and then say Barrett's better than him.

 

it's not the what, it's the how...

[dadofandrew]

Mench should get a raise in arby. You usually make more each year, unless you are injured. They'll figure out what his counting stats would be with 600 AB's and ask for $3.5-4M.