Catching situation for 2008 (Merged: "Maybe we'll have a better catcher next year!")

[TooLiveBrew]

With Johnny Estrada for a 'full' season now, it's safe to say I've been nothing but surprised with how disappointing he's been. I know that's just my opinion, but I know I'm not the only one. Lack of OBP we knew was part of the deal. What I didn't realize is that we'd also get a relative noodle-arm behind the plate, average at best defensive capabilities (it's pretty apparent now that most MLB catchers can 'call a good

game' ), and not much slugging of which to speak. While some with a bit more exposure to Estrada pre-2007 may have seen this coming, I certainly didn't realize we'd get simply average to below-average production across the board.

 

With a large FA class for the impending off-season, and a few intriguing candidates at C, who would you like to see pursued to man the dish for the Crew after this year? One option is certainly to retain Estrada, but the reason that made me start this thread is that I'd be surprised (as some have mentioned in other threads) if we couldn't get equal or better production for much cheaper - perhaps sacrificing some BA for boosts in other, more important categories like OBP, SLG, throwing arm, speed (hustle?)...

 

Although I realize the truly good names on this list will likely be out of our price range, here are the impending FA catchers. Plus, please be creative as any trade candidates would be welcome, too. Again, I fully realize that the most likely scenario is simple to retain Estrada, but a man can dream...

 

Michael Barrett (31)

Ramon Castro (32)

Jason Kendall (34)

Paul Lo Duca (36)

Jorge Posada (36)

Jose Molina (33)

Ivan Rodriguez (36) - $13MM club option for '08

Yorvit Torrealba (30)

 

(from MLBTradeRumors.com)

 

EDIT: Estrada is getting roughly $3.4 mil. this year, with one last arbitration year in 2008. It's safe to say he'll easily be over $5 mil., so keep that in mind when speculating. Also note that Dave Bush & J.J. Hardy will be entering their first year of arbitration, and will receive raises that won't break the bank, but will likely be significant.

 

 

(added tags; spelled out 'catching' in thread title --1992)

[TooLiveBrew]

From the list, I'd guess Kendall (barring a major slump from here to the end of '07) will be extended by the Cubs, as he's been an on-base machine for them since his arrival. He doesn't have a great arm behind the plate either, and it will remain to be seen if he can maintain success past the crunch of the end of a conract-year. One interesting choice may be Ramon Castro, who doesn't get on-base much better (if at all) than Estrada, but slugs a bit more, and would have a hard time not having a better arm than Johnny. Granted, given the FA marketplace, another team may well see this & offer more than would make sense for the Brewers. The other guys on the list are either too old or too pricey to realistically consider. Gonna check out some viable trade candidates in more detail at a later date...

[igor67]

I was going to post some kind of wishy washy post throwing out advocacy for guys like Rottino and the Captain. But that would be dishonest, as you said toolive all the catchers call a good game and Estrada has been Piazza bad throwing guys out.

Let's reflect on Estrada's offense .299 OBP and .402 SLG also a .235EQA

Compared to a translation of Captain Lou's AA numbers .339 OBP and .434 SLG also a .263 EQA

Rottino .322 OBP and .386 SLG with a .246 EQA

 

Again for those who do not know the translations involve NO projections they merely adjust the stats for the league difficulty. Based on that Rottino would be a pretty significant upgrade on Miller offense, and the Captain would be a huge jump on Estrada. To say nothing of the big leap in base running skills. Miller's BA is low enough it may rebound some next year, however both EQA's are above the league wide catcher average of .243 EQA

[Ennder]

Estrada is also having what should be considered a down year. Look at Estrada's EQA for 2006 which very well may be what he hits next year and then judge them. I'm not a huge fan of Estrada but he'll be our C next year almost for sure.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I would sign Benji Molina to a one or two year deal. He would get around the same money as Estrada and he is better. Molina has a strong throwing arm and far more power than Estrada. He has also played in big games with the Angels and played great. The only negatives with Molina are his age and the fact that he is as slow as Estrada. I would rather have Molina on a short term deal than Estrada.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I would also look into possibly trading a guy like Vargas for Laird. Texas has Saltalamacchia so they have no use for Laird past this season. Laird is a great defensive catcher, maybe the best in baseball with a bazooka for an arm. He has had a bad season offensively but was good two years ago. Laird would be such an upgrade defensively that I could live with slightly lesser offensive numbers than Estrada.

[Ennder]

I'd love to see Laird as our C, he's athletic too, runs well and can steal a few bases.

[cruiserx43]

I think that with Lou going to Winter ball this year that the Crew is hoping to have him ready by 2009, so I get the impression that there is no way around the fact that the GIDP machine will be back with the Crew again next year. I have no idea what they are going to do at backup unless they can get a reduction out of Miller.

[crewcrazy]

I would also look into possibly trading a guy like Vargas for Laird. Texas has Saltalamacchia so they have no use for Laird past this season. Laird is a great defensive catcher, maybe the best in baseball with a bazooka for an arm. He has had a bad season offensively but was good two years ago. Laird would be such an upgrade defensively that I could live with slightly lesser offensive numbers than Estrada.

The Rangers aren't impressed with Saltalamacchia's catching abilities and have been playing him mostly at 1B, with Laird still catching. Salty's never really been a great defensive catcher (one of the reasons why the Braves kept McCann over Salty), and a move to 1B has been talked about for awhile now. Considering that Laird is cheap and good defensively (even if he isn't hitting this year), I don't think the Rangers are going to move him. It couldn't hurt to throw Gwynn at the Rangers and see if they'd take that deal, but I don't think they'll let Laird go.

 

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I wouldn't argue that Estrada has been disappointing. However, his hammie is really bothering him. If his hammie is the reason for the down year, the question becomes...is he the Catcher you want if he returns to his 2006 levels? It would be great to get an upgrade...I'm just not sure it will be feasible.

[brettac1]

I'd love to see them sign Barrett to a one year make good type of deal. He's had a rough year, but so has Estrada, and I'm way more confident in Barrett bouncing back than I am in Estrada, because unlike Estrada he actually was good for more than one season in a row, and he can draw some walks and hit some bombs, things that Estrada is allergeric to doing. And he can possibly score from first on something other than a HR or triple.

 

I don't know how anyone can bank on Estrada to improve, when pretty much his entire batting line is driven by how lucky he is. He's a god awful hitter, as far as I'm concerned he's one of the few exceptions to the rule of "the numbers don't lie".

 

Posada is a pipe dream that I have kicked around before, but I think he'll probably start to get the Bernie Williams one year deals in perpetuity situation from the Yankees.

[Crazyk1294]

Kelly Shoppach from Cleaveland would be less of a stretch. He's solid defensively and can hit a bit. The Indians would probably be willing to part with a back-up C since Victor Martinez just singed a new deal. Doug, make it happen!

[dadofandrew]

Estrada is about an average C, and most of those names are simply well below average, not to mention, old.

[sbrylski]

Resigning Ben Sheets is priority number one this offseason, IMO. We then wouldn't have the money for a free agent splash.

 

As for trade candidates, none are clear upgrades. I'd like to try for Jeff Clement, but I don't think that'll be likely.

[Mr QL]

I just want a guy who can play some defense. If they would take some pitches that would be nice too.

[DHonks]

I've really enjoyed Johnny behind the dish and at the plate this year. He's hit solidly, and is solid at blocking balls and framing pitches. The only thing I've been concerned about is his total lack of speed has hurt. I could see us signing a Henry Blanco-type to be the backup, with Rottino serving as the 3rd catcher for next year. Of course, we know Rottino caught in AAA, but we don't know if the organization feels he's a capable MLB catcher.

 

I don't want to even consider guys like Barrett. I don't mind the argument that Posada would be huge.

 

As for Hardy and Bush getting payraises, remember that Miller, Jenkins, Koskie, Vargas, and Cappy might not be back.

[brettac1]

I don't want to even consider guys like Barrett.

 

2004: .287/.337/.489, 16 HR

2005: .276/.345/.479, 16 HR

2006: .307/.368/.517, 16 HR

 

That's a catcher who is one year removed from an .885 OPS, and to not consider him because the team has a guy who's best year was pretty much in line with Barrett's worst in that span doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus he's a liability in terms of throwing out baserunners, if a guy's going to be that bad defensively, he should at least be able to rake. Estrada has had his share of lockerroom difficulties, too, so if that's an issue (which it really shouldn't be - just because Barrett got punched in the face he's a problem?) I think they're on an even playing field.

 

A player with a .299 OBP to this point should not be considered to be a position of strength for the team, that's a spot where Melvin desperately needs to try and find someone better at getting on base (since the team's inability to get on base is what has possibly doomed the season). Estrada has been horribly inconsisent this season, because it all depends on whether or not his singles are falling in or dribbling through the infield. It's honestly inconceivable to me that a player who gets on base less than 30% of the time can be considered by some to be a solid hitter, or even hold down an everyday job in the big leagues. It's been pretty hard for me to "enjoy" his .252/.273/.293 line since the all-star break. That is Chad Moeller territory.

[sbrylski]

This is all waaay easier said than done. Selling low on Estrada and getting a poor return just so you can get rid of him (which is likely to happen if you are "forcing" him out of town), then paying a high price for the new catcher either in a trade or free agency, is just a bad waste of your resources.

[brettac1]

I guess I don't agree that he is being "forced" out of town, or that Barrett is going to cost a high amount. It's not even inconceivable to have both Barrett and Estrada, though Estrada would likely complain about not getting as much playing time as he would prefer. I personally wouldn't mind that situation, but Estrada was able to get the D'Backs Doug Davis, I think the Brewers could get a decent return for him if they were to trade him.

[dadofandrew]

Estrada's OBP is barely below average for a C. He's a very solid offensive C, we're not talking about a corner OF here.

[TooLiveBrew]

So doa, we can agree that Estrada is below average offensively and terrible defensively, I assume. Why on earth would you be willing to pay roughly $5 mil. for that next season?

[brettac1]

How in the world is a below average OBP "very solid"?

[Ennder]

I can agree he has had a bad year offensively, I'd expect a partial rebound from him next year though.

 

His passed ball etc defense is bad but not terrible, his arm is a wet noodle though.

 

I wouldn't mind making Estrada the backup and someone else starter or splitting time 50/50 next year at all, but I don't really know that someone viable is going to be had and I doubt they pay that much for a backup and they won't sell low on him.

 

I'd give it about a 90% chance he's our C again next year.

[TooLiveBrew]

His passed ball etc defense is bad but not terrible, his arm is a wet noodle though.

Add those two together, though, and you have what he is - a flat-out terrible defensive catcher.

[Zycho32]

Out of curiosity, are there any available Catchers who show downright improvement in matters of intangibles when compared to Estrada?

 

I mean intangibles like hustle and what-not. Something that could offset whatever disadvantages they might have statistically speaking.