Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost

[TheCrew07]

Like it or dislike it, the manager's track record is probably the biggest indicator of his performance and quality.

I don't know how you can evaluate the manager's winning percentage independently of available talent.

 

 

Bingo!

[dvoiss]

Earlier in this thread I posted saying Yost should go. but having thought about it all day I guess I don't really care. If Yost is fired does that guarantee that we won't be in this same spot next August? No it does not. If a new manager comes in and wins 95 games does that mean he's a much better manager than Ned? No it does not. If Ned stays does that mean we won't win in 08? No it does not.

 

I guess I don't think the manager has as big an impact on his team as say a football coach does. At the end of the day it comes down to hitting, catching throwing and running. Ned is too old to do any of these things well. Hell he didn't do them too well when he did play. I guess I'll just let Melvin decide what to do. I trust his judgement more than my own on matters such as these.

[strawbossisevil]

Yay. Judging Yost on his track record? Please! The guy has had no talent to speak of on his team until this season, and despite what everyone is saying, the Brewers are just one hot streak away from making the playoffs, and going into the season, I would have taken that in a heartbeat.

 

Yost is what he is, an average major league manager who has above average skills when dealing with his players off the field. Players want to play for him, and that's a good thing. The only way I'd fire him is if they finished under .500.

 

The Yost threads are getting a little tiring, it's always just rehashing the same tired stuff over and over. Like Billhallfan said, everyone already has their opinion of the job that Ned Yost is doing, so what's really the point of it all? No one's opinion is getting changed in this discussion, is it? I mean, it's clear that some posters clearly have an anti-Yost stance, and others are willing to wait and see how the season turns out before making a judgment. Repeating that in multiple threads isn't going to make an opinion right or wrong, because there is no right or wrong opinion. I've been coming to this site less and less lately because all I see are the same old Yost threads, and nothing loses my interest faster than beating a dead horse. I take a two week break from this site, with this topic in my memory Can we have an official Ned Yost thread or this thread, Textbook Bullpen Mismanagement, and I come back to find this Yost thread, talking about the exact same thing. It's amazing how easy it is to look up the discussion topic, in the search at the top of the page, the wonders of technology.

[1992casey]

Yay. Judging Yost on his track record? Please! The guy has had no talent to speak of on his team until this season...

I'd have to assume that 'track record' would somehow be outside raw W-L record, but you know what people say about 'when you assume...'. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

The Yost threads are getting a little tiring, it's always just rehashing the same tired stuff over and over... Am I the only one that feels this way?

That's definitely a valid point, and I tend to feel the same way. That's one reason why moderators have been picky about keeping only one catch-all Yost thread active at a time. (Check the designated threads list; there'll be one listed. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif) And it's why the mods have been aggressively trying to keep specific Yost topics focused on the narrow area they're intended to address. I love the fact that we have the Yost tag available to help us do this.

This sure beats other forums, though, where you're likely to find threads like "Why, Ned, why?", "Ned screwed up again tonight!", "Ned is an idiot!", FIRE YOST NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", and the ambiguous "Yost" all carrying on the same discussion at once.

[JohnBriggs12]

To those that say the talent wasn't there, okay. Fine. Manager of the year balloting often reflects which managers got more from their talent. Has Yost in 4 previous seasons even once been in the top 4 in manager of the year balloting?

 

That would be a total of 16 slots and isn't he 0 for 16?

[DougJones43]

Javier Valentin 3-year hitting splits:

 

vs LHP .137/.254/.196 = .450 OPS

vs RHP .286/.340/.501 = .841 OPS

 

Good thing Shouse was brought in after Valentin gave the Reds the lead. This kind of crap just never ends.

[1992casey]

Ned finished 5th in 2005's manager of the year voting.

 

Of course, it has to be considered that rankings are a lousy way to judge things and that the voting reflects the collective opinion of 32 people, many of whom could be considered difficult to trust.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Please fire this dope now. How many games is he going to cost us. This team has way too much talent to continually choke away games. Enough is enough.

[Brian the Automator]

Let's not turn this into the venting thread.

[DougJones43]

During his press conference, Ned just said they wanted to face Valentin hitting from the left-side. Why??

When told Valentin is much weaker hitter against LHP, he said "we like Linebrink there." Again, why?

If he could ever at least provide rational explanations for his tactics, maybe it'd be easier to cut him a break. It's honestly as if he just uses a magic 8-ball down in the dugout sometimes. I just don't get it. I don't see how you can retain a manager who obviously refuses and/or doesn't know how to use statistics and logical thinking to make game decisions.

[Bruce Ciskie]

During his press conference, Ned just said they wanted to face Valentin hitting from the left-side. Why??

 

When told Valentin is much weaker hitter against LHP, he said "we like Linebrink there." Again, why?

 

If he could ever at least provide rational explanations for his tactics, maybe it'd be easier to cut him a break. It's honestly as if he just uses a magic 8-ball down in the dugout sometimes. I just don't get it. I don't see how you can retain a manager who obviously refuses and/or doesn't know how to use statistics and logical thinking to make game decisions.

 

BaseballReference.com doesn't work on Ned's computer.

 

(Sorry. I had to try to say something funny.)

[Brewer Fever]

During his press conference, Ned just said they wanted to face Valentin hitting from the left-side. When told Valentin is much weaker hitter against LHP, he said "we like Linebrink there"? Again, why? At least if he could ever provide rational explanations for his tactics, maybe it'd be easier to cut him a break. It's honestly as if he just uses a magic 8-ball down in the dugout sometimes. I just don't get it. I don't see how you can retain a manager who obviously refuses to use statistics and logical thinking to make game decisions.

I heard that too and was floored. His exact words were that he wanted to face Valentin batting lefty. Are you kidding me?! You want to make the guy swing from the side his OPS is 400 points higher?

HUGE NAY!

Get rid of this guy yesterday.

[JohnBriggs12]

"Ned finished 5th in 2005"

 

I was aware of that. So of the 20 top 5 places from 2003 to 2006, he's got one 5th place. Wow!

 

"ranking are a lousy way to judge things"

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

If won-loss records aren't the correct measure of success because they fail to take into account perceived talent levels, then how can you also dismiss MOY awards wherein 32 relatively informed writers judge a manager on what he accomplished with perceived talent not just his w/l record?

 

After Ned fails to get a vote this season, he'll be 0-20 getting a top 4 vote, with that sole 5th in 2005 his best.

[Brian the Automator]

I heard that too and was floored. His exact words were that he wanted to face Valentin batting lefty. Are you kidding me?! You want to make the guy swing from the side his OPS is 400 points higher?

 

Ned lost some Automator approval points today for that reason. I'm starting to swing to the point where a couple of wins over .500 (which is a higher threshhold than my initial statement) would have me questioning whether he should be retained or not. The pitching staff has been losing more games than Ned, but THESE types of mistakes just can't be made by a major league manager.

[Ennder]

Um Valentin's OPS is pretty much the same from both sides this year, for his career there is about a .170 point spread. The point is valid but there is no need to exaggerate by saying its .400 higher.

 

There aren't many games where I think the manager causes the win or loss but this is one I have no complaints about people saying he cost the game. The players still need to do their jobs of course but Yost made a number of questionable choices and we lost by 1 run so this one I have no problem with people blaming on him.

[pitchleague]

I'll say NAY right now. Wouldn't surprise me to see him given a "vote of confidence" from Mark A. after the road trip. (that would be the dreaded "vote of confidence" which is basically a "you better turn things around or you're gone" kind of thing.)

[Brewer Fever]

Um Valentin's OPS is pretty much the same from both sides this year, for his career there is about a .170 point spread. The point is valid but there is no need to exaggerate by saying its .400 higher.

 

I was just going from this stat posted earlier in the thread...

 

Javier Valentin 3-year hitting splits:

 

vs LHP .137/.254/.196 = .450 OPS

vs RHP .286/.340/.501 = .841 OPS

 

I think it's pretty obvious that you bring in your lefty and make this guy hit from the right side. Not only did Ned miss this opportunity, he made a point to say he wanted to have Valentin up there batting from the left side and he liked the matchup better with his RHP facing Javier. That statement displays 100% utter incompetence.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Um Valentin's OPS is pretty much the same from both sides this year, for his career there is about a .170 point spread. The point is valid but there is no need to exaggerate by saying its .400 higher.

 

His career OPS against lefties is .566 with a .290 OBP. He has 13 ABs this year against lefties because his manager won't let him hit against lefties unless he has to. The career numbers explain why that would be.

[DuWayne Steurer]

At this point, I have to vote nay. I've never thought that Ned was a good in-game manager, but I thought that was at least partly neutralized by the fact that the players liked playing for him. I think when you're trying to WIN however, that winning has a lot more precedent to players rather than liking the guy that makes out the lineup card.

 

It's not like this is the first time the team has had an utterly complete meltdown in the 2nd half of a season, either. Blame the Sheets injury, but the fact of the matter is that the best Sheets might be able to do is neutralize an automatic loss from having Capuano out there every five days.

 

I think it's playoffs or bust for Yost.

[Hammer]

I'm on the NAY side of the argument and have been for about 6 weeks. Yost is not a good in-game manager and it seems like he never has been. Yep, he was a "players manager" in the past but now he has even lost that (see dugout fight thread).

 

Yost has lost his team...hence, he needs to lose his job. If Attanasio and Team Canada had any stones they would do it right now...

[Diskono]

Apologies for a post that probably belongs in the vent thread, but I think its on-topic. After today, I'm firmly in the Nay camp. Allowing Linebrink bat for himself (seriously, did Ned fall asleep in the dugout here?) and letting Valentin bat lefty were inexcusable. Ned is a good manager for a bad team (like the 2003 and 2004 Brewers), but lots of his decisions leave me feeling like when we win, we win despite him. Yeah yeah you can't manage every game like game 7 of the world series blah blah blah...ok, but can we manage just one game like that please, or even manage it like a normal game, and not like a blowout? There's a reason Scott Linebrink isn't a long reliever. He did his job, getting us out of trouble in the 7th. Obviously Turnbow and Shouse were available today, so why couldn't they pitch in the 8th?

[Brian the Automator]

Apologies for a post that probably belongs in the vent thread, but I think its on-topic. After today, I'm firmly in the Nay camp. Allowing Linebrink bat for himself (seriously, did Ned fall asleep in the dugout here?) and letting Valentin bat lefty were inexcusable.

Regarding the Linebrink deal, he had Dillon up there and then pulled him back when Hardy went yard. The idea there being that there were 0 outs and felt comfortable letting Linebrink pitch the 8th with a lead when he had pitched so little in the previous inning. I'm not saying it was a fantastic idea (especially in hindsight), but that's the reasoning.

[jlau20]

I'm more miffed about the Valentin situation than the Linebrink situation. Honestly, I don't think we get anything else going that inning anyways. Was it still a good idea to have Linebrink hit? Probably not, but for as much as Ned likes to play matchups, I was very surprised about the Valentin at bat.

[Ennder]

I have crossed over at this point, if this team falls under .500 for even one game I think Yost should be fired during the season. If he doesn't turn it around and we crash and burn on this road trip I'd really like to see us cut ties with him.

 

I'm fine with not making the playoffs but this year we have been talented and healthy enough that there isn't a good excuse for being under .500 this late in the season.

[RU Rah Rah]

It seems like some of the arguments are anti-firing ("he's not responsible for everything that's gone wrong") rather than pro-retaining ("he's actually a pretty manager, and here's why"). I'm still willing to listen to the latter, but it's increasingly getting to be a hard sell.