Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost

[ReverendBrewmeister]

Heard something on FSN Radio while driving this afternoon regarding Yost:

 

Denny Hocking was on, and he mentioned hearing from someone inside the Brewers (I'm assuming a player) that about three weeks ago, Yost held a meeting with three or four of his veteran players asking for their evaluation of his job as managing. Sounds like a council-of-war, so to speak. Hocking's opinion was that shows a lack of leadership; that a manager should not be asking his players for their opinion on his job performance. Hocking suggested that asking one-on-one might work--asking just one player--but a group of players shows weakness/lack of confidence. Hocking indicated that he would not be surprised if Yost would be replaced if the Pittsburgh series would go poorly, even at this late of a date in the season. His suggestion was Dusty Baker, which just about caused me to spit coffee all over the dashboard. He also suggested that some veteran ought to take a ride down Burnie's slide or do something wacky to take everyone's mind off of the collapse and back to playing for the love of it.

 

FWIW, that kind of plays into the whole confidence issue with Yost. The resigned tone of voice, vacant stare at press conferences make a bit more sense. I've moved to the Nay Camp this past 4-6 weeks. This whole story that Hocking told makes me wonder if someone in the office above has also come to such a conclusion.

[DougJones43]

I would be willing to bet Doug Melvin has already made up his mind about Yost. If I had to guess, I would say:

 

- He will not be fired during the season, no matter what happens from here on out

- If the Brewers make the playoffs, Ned stays

- If the Brewers miss the playoffs, Ned is replaced

 

It's probably that simple.

[billyhallfan]

- If the Brewers miss the playoffs, Ned is replaced

 

I don't know if that is the case, I think if the Brewers have a losing season Ned should be replaced, but to put that much pressure on a manager of a team of young players who haven't won anything let alone most of them be in the majors for mor than 3 years is a little much IMO.

 

I would agree with you first two.

 

and even if they win 87 games and miss, I'm still not sure he gets fired.

 

But the last one should be if the Brewers have a losing record, Ned goes.

[brettac1]

I think the idea of if they make the playoffs, he stays, if not he goes is pretty silly. It's very possible they could go 84-78 and miss the playoffs, but at the same times they could go 82-80 and make it. But he's a better manager in the latter situation?

 

When Melvin evaluates Yost, he needs to place much more emphasis on process than results. It's kind of pointless to use something as basic as that situation, it's not giving an honest evaluation of his ability (or lack thereof, if you hate the guy) as a manager.

 

If Melvin thinks he's a bad manager, he should fire him regardless of whether the team makes the playoffs or not. And if he thinks Ned is a good manager, he should keep him either way. If he does get fired, all I care is that they don't hire some retread that has had five jobs before.

[DougJones43]

It's very possible they could go 84-78 and miss the playoffs, but at the same times they could go 82-80 and make it. But he's a better manager in the latter situation?

 

No. When you don't have a good career track record, and blow a big division lead in August, you'd better find a way to get into the playoffs or you're in trouble. It's not completely fair, I know, but I think that's just how it goes sometimes.

brettac1 wrote:

 

When Melvin evaluates Yost, he needs to place much more emphasis on process than results...If Melvin thinks he's a bad manager, he should fire him regardless of whether the team makes the playoffs or not. And if he thinks Ned is a good manager, he should keep him either way.

I'm sure all the things you mentioned have already gone into Melvin's thinking. I'd have to imagine at this point he's come to the same conclusion most here have (Yost's illogical decision making makes him a sub-par manager). However, it sure would be difficult for him to justify firing a manager who led the Brewers to the playoffs for the first time in 25 years.

 

I know that GM's need to try and avoid letting pressure from fans, media, or ownership affect their personnel decisions, but I think that it still does quite a bit. Like it or not, a GM's survival is based heavily on the appeasement of fans, media, and owners. I don't think Mark Attanasio has been very pleased with what has transpired since the All-Star break. This last month will be the difference between Ned being the guy that blew a division lead to the rival Cubs, or being the hero who led the Brewers to the promised land. Like I said, I know it's not a completely fair and just way to evaluate him, but I still believe it will be the difference in him keeping or losing his job.

[logan82]

No. When you don't have a good career track record, and blow a big division lead in August, you'd better find a way to get into the playoffs or you're in trouble. It's not completely fair, I know, but I think that's just how it goes sometimes.

 

This is part of the reason I am not real big on firing him. This is the first year he has really had a good enough team to actually compete. I don't care how good of a manager you are, bad players can only do so much.

[RU Rah Rah]

He can at least take consolation in the fact that he's not Lloyd Carr.

[tyguy]

yay. I guess I'm one of the few who like Yost, ah well.

[twobrewers]

While I still remain in the "Nay" category - I have been fairly pleased with Ned lately. It will take a lot longer to forget Mench on 8/30, but Ned at least is managing lately.

 

One of my biggest complaints has always been his laze fairre attitude. If a player is slumping - he rides it out with the player. I am happy he has benched Hall a few times in favor of Gross. Bill isn't playing well, and we need to win games - not pamper our players.

 

Plus Ned is finally showing some emotion in the dugout. I like to know he gets upset.

[TooLiveBrew]

or that he cares

[M Skjellyfetti]

I understand that many people are pretty angry about the Mench hitting fiasco on 8/30 (I am too, to be honest), but I don't understand why something so simple as that should lead to a firing. That seems like a fairly simple thing to fix. In any other job, if a guy makes a mistake, generally that mistake is evaluated and, with the help of his superiors, he learns how to not make similar mistakes in the future. Why should baseball be any different? It seems to me that this would have been a perfect opportunity for Ned and Doug to have a little chat, talk about how stuff like that really shouldn't happen too often, discuss the rationale behind not letting Mench hit against righties, and making sure the same mistake doesn't happen down the road. IMO, a baseball manager shouldn't be fired for easily preventable mistakes.

[Fatter than Joey]

If Melvin thinks he's a bad manager, he should fire him regardless of whether the team makes the playoffs or not.

 

I agree 100% -- Unlike us, DM has access to more data on whether Yost is performing well or not.

 

I suspect that these last ~30 games will make or break Yost -- but I think it will be more about how well the team plays, and

not their playoff chances.

 

Again, DM will have his finger better on the pulse of his team than we could ever.

[Brewer Fever]

The level of incompetance this man continues to display never ceases to amaze me. He is simply an awful in-game manager.

[adambr2]

Nay. Nay. For the love of God, Nay.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Please get rid of this clown now. Just when you think he cant get worse he does. Good job taking out Shouse and bringing in Aquino. Good job bringing in Mcclung instead of Linebrink. This guy is just completely incompetent and its costing us a playoff spot.

[Ennder]

I have never seen a worse job managing a baseball team than Yost has done over the past 3 weeks or so. I have gone from indifference to praying every night that he gets fired in less than a month. He has been making choices that completely defy logic and as far as I can tell is actually trying to lose games.

[brewcrewkid14]

If they want to make the playoffs he needs to be fired today. I wish I were Doug Melvin right about now. Looking at the guys in the dugout wasn't very pretty in one of the last shots.

 

If he hadn't lost his team before this game, I would think that when he puts in guys who haven't been with the team all season in key situations (McClung, Aquino, Spurling, Rottino) can't make too many of the regular guys happy. What a joke. Fire him and do manager by comittee or something. This guy's a joke.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Ennder, it really does seem like he is trying to lose his job. The moves that he makes are completely inexcusable. He will be the reason why we dont make the playoffs and that is sad.

[pitchleague]

again, I feel it comes down to Yost bringing McClung for confidence reasons (he can say he liked the matchups all he wants). Same with Aquino.

 

Unfortunately, he needs to realize that we need wins right now. Confidence is for spring training.

[Vgmastr]

Can we just fire Yost now and at least try to salvage this season? The idiot has proven over and over he has no idea how to properly manage a bullpen. We will never be a playoff team with Yost. With a competent manager, we'd be about 5 games up right now. At what point to the players just get fed up and mutiny? When Yost came out to pull Shouse, the entire team should have just run up, tackle him, tie him up, and lock him in the clubhouse bathroom.

[Brewer Fever]

You know what. I need to add on to what I posted about 10 minutes ago. If this organization had any balls and some common sense, they'd fire him TONIGHT. They are a game and a half out of first and it is clearly in spite of that boob. There is no darn way that Melvin and Attanasio cannot see at this point how detrimental his managing deficiencies are to our chances. How heroic would it be if they became the ones with enough guts to fire a manager in September only 1-1/2 out. If the new guy takes over and wins the division they look brilliant. If we continue on and miss out, who could blame them for giving it a shot. In that scenario, would a single person come back and say we would have won it with Yost?

[LouisEly]

Was there really even that much of a need to pinch hit for Sheets? Why not leave him in for another inning?

What's Bobby Valentine up to these days?

[Brian the Automator]

I change my vote to yay. Going with Aquino over Shouse, who righties are hitting .250 off of, was a masterstroke of reverse psychology. In this case, it didn't work out. But 1 time out of 10, it will. And that one time will be very, very cool.

[RyDogg66]

In Ned's post game interview he basically said that no matter what he did in the 8th, if the Astros get a hit there people would second guess him.

 

Well Ned, Im pretty sure of you went with Cordero with two out in the 8th and the tying runs on base, nobody gets in your face if Cordero blows it.

[windiv07]

In Ned's post game interview he basically said that no matter what he did in the 8th, if the Astros get a hit there people would second guess him.

 

Well Ned, Im pretty sure of you went with Cordero with two out in the 8th and the tying runs on base, nobody gets in your face if Cordero blows it.

I agree. It is September and this is a pennant race. No time to be messing around. It is time to think about winning ball games. Ned is too busy trying not to lose ball games.