Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost

[AdvantageSchneider]

How can you let a guy who's had 2 AB's in 6 weeks BUNT when you know you're replacing him?

 

If nothing else, PH Yo, or Bush.

 

Honestly. That may have been the dumbest thing I've seen.

 

Not to mention PHing for Billy, and not for Mench.

 

Cripes. Yes, lets take out the better defensive player who hits righties better, and not the terrible defensive player who can't hit righties at all.

 

Just to be clear I thought Parra hurt his hand bunting. I don't think the plan was to take him out prior to his AB.

[jlau20]

Thinking about it, maybe Mench was so confused that he was going up there to hit that he was just swung at that first pitch because he was in shock.

 

I'm sure he looked back to the dugout for the pinch hitter more than once.

 

Jenkins should have just grabbed a bat and went out there...sure it might have ended in a K, but atleast we have the right bat up there.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I can't blame Yost for leaving Cappy in. He pitches so well and then makes one or two bad pitches that kill him. Very hard to know when to yank him when he's cruising, that's been the hard part of managing him.

 

The bunt...I see the point of taking the bat out of Fielder's hands, but a DP kills the chances of a tie and the bunt puts the tying run in scoring position with Braun up...I can't fault him.

 

Mench????? If Jenkins had a pulse...the guy should be in there. Or Counsell. OK, fine keep Estrada in case of extras, but you have to get there first. It may not have changed anything, but Yost blew that call.

[BrewCityUnit]

Nay

[TooLiveBrew]

Ok, Cappy's moving along fine, sure. He's left in to pitch to Murton, Chicago's version of Mench - who hits a meatball out. Ok, tried to get more outta Cappy, we're down one, Wise & Linebrink are available, he obviously won't let him pitch to Soria-- why? I know he hit a pitch off the ground, but that's precisely why you should create a more favorable matchup - Soriano can definitely rake LHP. Alright, so he didn't trust Linebrink, otherwise he would have used him in the 7th, right? Wrong. In comes Scott. If you're gonna use him the next inning, why not generate more favorable matchups against Soriano, Theriot, Lee, Ramirez, etc.?

 

I have no problem with how the 9th was managed. Oh wait, except for MENCH batting! http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/mad.gif What in the world, what in the world, what in the world, what in the world?!

 

Yosted

[billyhallfan]

i think mench and yost need to be shown the door pretty soon. Laynce Nix can do better than Kevin Mench right now, IMO, shoot, mybe even Drew Anderson...

[DougJones43]

If anybody didn't hear Yost's explanation of leaving Mench in, here is a rough synopsis:

 

Jenkins is 4-for-17 against Dempster, and Mench is 0-for-1 (apparently this gives Mench the statistical advantage?). Yost felt none of the availabe bench options offered a heavy advantage for facing Dempster, therefore the situation was basically a coinflip. Yost said this, and the gameflow (whatever that means) gave Mench the edge.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Bill Schoerder said that he was surprised Mench was hitting. Is there anyone out there that has followed the brewers semi-closely that doesn't know he can't hit RH pitching? Anyone?

 

I ditto the Sherman rage. Sherman might have been a decent coach. He just was a horrible GM. I don't think Yost has any redeeming qualities.

[billyhallfan]

I know he sucks, but what is Mench's split for hitting RHP? shouldn't a manager know that?

[TooLiveBrew]

I understand - I also understand that logic was used in game #1 when Shouse did not pitch against Jones (Jones has hit him well historically, and got one off him last night, too). What I don't understand is that somehow a .000 output is 'better', even though Mench traditionally does not hit well against RHP. I even understand not PH for Mench earlier, since Piniella could've used Eyre - off of whom Jenkins singled last night, but still, ok, don't want Jenkins to face a LHP. Why does that logic not apply to Mench? Oh yea, because it's not logic, it's moronity.

[Nearsighted Views]

I wouldn't be that riled up about that move if he hadn't always gone overboard with the matchups his entire tenure here. I think he's really cracked over the last few weeks and seeing him in the post game comments was kind of sad even though I don't like him. He looked like a puppy who just peed on the floor in front of his alcoholic owner.

 

Wow. I can defend every other move tonight (and believe me, I don't go out of my way to do that). But the Mench thing. Words can't even describe it.

[AJAY]

Let me just respond to a few points . . .

 

While I recognize that Joe Dillon has a smaller sample size of at-bats compared to Kevin Mench, I also feel that 25 years of watching baseball and seeing hitters approaches tells me that Dillon just looks a lot more competent at the plate. I am not trying to sound arrogant, and I am not a professional scout. But I can just tell that Dillon is a better hitter and should be starting ahead of Mench. There's something about his swing that just gives more confidence to me as a fan. It took me just four at-bats to see that Dillon knows what he is doing up there.

 

And I understand that you can't manage to save Capuano's feelings, you also have to know that the longer he goes and the more they see his changeup, the more likely he is to implode out there. So you take him out before he implodes AND you leave him feeling good about his outing so maybe he can be more cofident the next time you need him.

 

The Hardy bunt made me vomit. This team should NEVER be counted on for scoring runs with less than two outs and a runners in scoring position. You have to know your team better. The guy just has NO sense for what is about to happen on the field.

[jlau20]

I wouldn't be that riled up about that move if he hadn't always gone overboard with the matchups his entire tenure here.

 

Wow. I can defend every other move tonight (and believe me, I don't go out of my way to do that). But the Mench thing. Words can't even describe it.

Stop reading my mind. I'll agree though, every other decision atleast had some merit to it, the Mench at-bat, had none.

 

[endaround]

I understand - I also understand that logic was used in game #1 when Shouse did not pitch against Jones (Jones has hit him well historically, and got one off him last night, too). What I don't understand is that somehow a .000 output is 'better', even though Mench traditionally does not hit well against RHP. I even understand not PH for Mench earlier, since Piniella could've used Eyre - off of whom Jenkins singled last night, but still, ok, don't want Jenkins to face a LHP. Why does that logic not apply to Mench? Oh yea, because it's not logic, it's moronity.

Actually Pinella couldn't change pitchers because Mench was the first batter faced. So Yost could have forced a righty versus Jenkins but didn't.

 

[Roscoe Chill]

Capuano wasn't exactly cruising with great stuff either. He was somewhat lucky, leaving 88 MPH fast balls over the plate, and after Murton homered, it was obvious he was done...again, just like all year. Leaving him in to face Soriano was dumb.

[TooLiveBrew]

Agreed, NDOGG...and to end: thanks for picking up my pieces. Duh! Sorry there, but sheesh - even when I give him the benefit of the doubt I still get Yosted.

http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/mad.gif

[davego]

anyone old enough to recall when Bart Starr decided not to call a timeout V the Bears in 1983? The Bears ran the clock down and then kicked a game winning field goal to knock the Pack out of the playoffs. That is what went thru my brain when I saw Mench go to the plate. That move got Bart the axe, if you recall....

[TooLiveBrew]

This, imho, is no longer about "Do you support Ned" or "Do you not support Ned". This man is costing the team games with his terrible in-game decision-making. He is costing us games. Why should the same rules not apply to him that apply/ied to Capuano & Vargas? This man is costing us games, and we don't have the luxury of giving up games. He is costing us games. I can't overstate that.

[1992casey]

Not to be technical here, but isn't the guy who's Yosted the guy who's forgotten about? Wouldn't that mean that in this case whoever might have pinch hit for Mench was the one who was Yosted?

[TooLiveBrew]

I feel like the team & its fans are the ones getting Yosted, I didn't realize there were specific rules...Is that wrong?

[jason21nl]

billyhallfan[/b]]i was a yost fan, but I think jason21nl is starting to make me jump the fence, this is getting really annoying.

its not so bad over here. this side of the fence is filling up in a hurry. Even guys that I thought would never cross over are now coming to the dark side. The people that have been on his side, have had good reasons. Blaming Yost for everything is way over blown. It isn't his fault for pitchers pitching like crap, hitters not being clutch and so on. However a manager needs to put his team in the best situation to win.

I have been one of the major yost bashers this year but even I was shocked at the move he didn't make today. Leaving in Mench was just moronic. I could go either way on the bunt. I like bunting, I believe it has its part in baseball. I would have liked the bunt if we were down 1, but not 2. So we all know my vote, a big see ya later from me.

 

As much as I dislike Yost, I hated Sherman a thousand times more. I believe that Sherman costed us a Super Bowl apperance and has set the Packers back for years.

[logan82]

Blaming Yost or Mench for this loss is like blaming a kicker for missing a field goal at the end of a game. There were plenty of other opportunities to win the game before the 9th inning.

[davego]

Logan I'm with you except letting Mench hit there would be like letting the punter try that game winning field goal.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's a great analogy.

[Ennder]

Blaming Yost or Mench for this loss is like blaming a kicker for missing a field goal at the end of a game. There were plenty of other opportunities to win the game before the 9th inning.

 

If you want a real football comparison its more like having the ball 4th and goal from the 7 with 2 seconds left in the game and doing a run play. Yeah sometimes you will get that 7yards but any coach with a clue at all puts on a pass play in that situation. Yost put his team in the postion to lose instead of win and there really is no discussion about it. My wife thought it was a bad call and she barely follows baseball, even she knew it was dumb to leave Mench in.