Turnbow wants to be traded?

[1992casey]

Derrick doesn't have any options left. That's one of the reasons the Brewers were able to acquire him in the first place.

[whynotthebrewers]

I didnt read the entire thread so sorry if I repeat anything. I must say that it is going to be a real eye opener if we have replacements for Bow and even someone like Estrada. While both struggle and seem to really anger people, fact is every reliever is going to struggle at times and Estrada is one of the better hitting catchers out there.

 

We will find out how good Bow was when we bring in someother guy who is almost certainly going to be worse. Bullpen guys are not just laying around everywhere and it is a problem all over the league. I see some of the stats that are out there for Bow but I tend to look at each game separately and his numbers are much worse because when he was bad, he was really bad. But overall I think he was pretty good for stretches. As for catchers, Estrada may be awful defensively but his replacement is going to hit .230 and be the so called "automatic out" and people will just complain about that now. Its a position that is a black hole and from the comments here, I guess we want an auto out to go along with average defensive skills instead of a hitter with below average skills behind the plate. Fact is, there are not many good ones out there and we should be ready to complain about a Moeller like hitting, because that is what will be there.

 

So basically there is a no win situation for Melvin because either way there will be complaints. It's baseball and nobody is perfect and we had a pretty good thing but changes will now bemade. Just getting ready fo r the new things to come up once these two are put aside. And it will start as soon as these are answered and replacements are in place.

[bigredrobbo]

In his defense, IMO, Turnbow was Yosted several times (I witnessed this 3 times) when Shouse should have been brought in to face a left-handed stacked lineup of hitters in the 8th to shake things up before the call was made for Turnbow.

I disagree with this criticism of Yost. Turnbow was a closer and stated before this season that he wanted to be a closer again...It wasn't Yost's fault in the instances you describe that Turnbow didn't live up to his own expectations.

 

Wait, the players get to decide what their role on the team is? Doesn't the manager have the ability to veto these ideas? I thought that's why he's the manager. I sure hope that Ben Sheets doesn't decide he wants to bat cleanup next season. Or Yovani Gallardo doesn't decide he wants to see if he can pitch with his foot. We'd be screwed, and the manager would be powerless to stop it.

 

I love that a thread about Bow turns into Yost comments again.

 

Doesn't every thread? It's gotten to the point where it's just laughable now.

[gregmag]

You'd rather have the booing masses decide what's best for the team, not Doug Melvin? Interesting.

 

No, Russ, I really wouldn't -- hence the qualifier "I can see a fair argument that," and my statement (which you omitted) that I'm not all that down on Turnbow. I also made the comment you quoted in the very specific context of disagreeing with the earlier poster's implication that Turnbow's comments prove that booing doesn't do any good. If you're going to whip out the snide stick, please at least try to know what you're talking about first.

 

Greg.

[M Skjellyfetti]

If you don't think that's a big enough difference to take into consideration for matchups, than I guess we just have a difference of opinion. Also, considering that Shouse was often used to face RH (who he's historically much worse against) and Turnbow to face tough LH in the same game, I just really feel like they weren't put into the best situation to succeeed. Basing your bullpen decisions strictly off of what inning it is rather than all other factors seems stupid to me, but that's just my opinion.

I think in some cases, Shouse could have been used against left handed hitters (and I firmly believe he never should have faced right handed hitters unless the game was out of hand), but I can see a fine case for using the .597 guy over the .520 guy in order to keep the other team from pinch hitting (and gaining a platoon advantage against the LOOGY) or to keep from having to go through 2 or 3 guys in an inning and thus be able to use Shouse against lefties in different situations.

[bigredrobbo]

The Crew are going to need an 18 man bullpen next year to accommodate all the pitchers who will only be able to face one batter. Let's see, starter goes 6 innings, that leaves 9 outs. We'll assume that the closer gets the whole of the 9th, so we'll need 6 guys to get the ball to him...

[LUKE232323]

You get paid $3 million per year. That's $1 million for every out you have to get each time you appear. Do it.

[rluzinski]

No, Russ, I really wouldn't -- hence the qualifier "I can see a fair argument that," and my statement (which you omitted) that I'm not all that down on Turnbow.

 

If I misunderstood, I apologize. I see no benefit to the team from fans booing. You seem to be indicating otherwise.

 

For the record, i don't think Turnbow would be a great loss but he's still better than a couple of the guys they have already.

[RockCoCougars]

I'll do Turnbow/mid level prospect for Lidge.

[DougJones43]

I love that a thread about Bow turns into Yost comments again.

Doesn't every thread? It's gotten to the point where it's just laughable now.

 

If you ever decide to add something baseball-related (even a post as to why you think Yost isn't a bad manager - based on actual baseball reasons, not just complaining that people hate him), that would be great. Otherwise, you might want to consider taking your constant bellyaching about Ned-related posting content to the Issues forum. Otherwise you can PM a moderator.

 

You've defended yourself on this issue by saying that since people complain about Yost, you have the right to complain about them. The big difference you're missing is that complaints about Yost are rooted in baseball discussion, while your unrelenting whining is not.

[billyhallfan]

I'll do Turnbow/mid level prospect for Lidge.

 

so would i, but the atros won't...

[brewers255]

DougJones he has the right to post about why people hate on Yost so much, it's his decision not yours lets just leave it as that.

[stoutdude04]

If you ever decide to add something baseball-related (even a post as to why you think Yost isn't a bad manager - based on actual baseball reasons, not just complaining that people hate him), that would be great. Otherwise, you might want to consider taking your constant bellyaching about Ned-related posting content to the Issues forum. Otherwise you can PM a moderator.

 

You've defended yourself on this issue by saying that since people complain about Yost, you have the right to complain about them. The big difference you're missing is that complaints about Yost are rooted in baseball discussion, while your unrelenting whining is not.

 

I have defended Yost in the past with some of my opinions. I recall us going back and forth a few times. After that, he did a few things that I did not like nor did I try to defend. Thus, I havent said anything lately about him. What I was saying in this post is, somehow, in a thread about Dbow wanting to be traded Yost gets brought back up again. I was not just directing it at you, as well as I have a feeling you are directing this post back at me. I was not having an issue or a problem, I just wish some people would keep the Yost comments in the Yost thread. The stats with Shouse and Bow...excellent stats and a good find. I understand maybe mentioning him. Sometimes people just seem to talk about more than it should. I never once in my previous post mentioned anything defending him. I came to this thread to see what people had found for stats. Infact, I very much agree with you about this subject(using Shouse in many instances). I just thought it would be nice to go one thread without bashing/defending Yost, from anyone.

[giffted1]

I love that a thread about Bow turns into Yost comments again.

Doesn't every thread? It's gotten to the point where it's just laughable now.

 

If you ever decide to add something baseball-related (even a post as to why you think Yost isn't a bad manager - based on actual baseball reasons, not just complaining that people hate him), that would be great. Otherwise, you might want to consider taking your constant bellyaching about Ned-related posting content to the Issues forum. Otherwise you can PM a moderator.

 

You've defended yourself on this issue by saying that since people complain about Yost, you have the right to complain about them. The big difference you're missing is that complaints about Yost are rooted in baseball discussion, while your unrelenting whining is not.

I can see his point. This thread was started to discuss Turnbow wanting to be traded. Now it's changed to another discussion of Ned's bullpen management. That topic has been beaten to death, resurrected, and beaten some more. The rules of conduct asks to avoid being repetitive, and that's exactly what this thread is becoming.

 

[DougJones43]

I don't see how you can have a discussion about the effectiveness of a bullpen pitcher without examining how he was used, and if he was put into situations that were most likely to allow him to succeed. Are we just supposed to pretend managerial decisions don't affect Brewer stuff outside of the designated Ned Yost threads, just because some people are so sensitive to the topic?

 

And for the record stoutdude, my comments weren't directed towards you. You've actually made attempts before to tie baseball-related content into your defenses of Ned.

[DougJones43]

That topic has been beaten to death, resurrected, and beaten some more. The rules of conduct asks to avoid being repetitive, and that's exactly what this thread is becoming.

Then like I said, PM a moderator or take it to the Issues forum. I certainly wouldn't be fan of limiting the mention of Ned Yost or the impact of managerial decision to one single thread, but it's not my site. But just contstantly responding to every mention of Yost with "you all just hate him" or "don't talk about Ned again!" or "all this Yost discussion is ruining my life" is just as bad, and it's not baseball-related whatsoever so it's constant presence doesn't belong in the Major League forum.

[stoutdude04]

And for the record stoutdude, my comments weren't directed towards you. You've actually made attempts before to tie baseball-related content into your defenses of Ned.

I thought that might be the case. Regardless, I understand talking about how Bow was used by Yost, not how Yost has used the pen in general. Whether or not Bow was put in difficult situations or was not pulled out early enough, as there clearly is evidence of both instances. He NEEDS to do his job, which is throw strikes. And yes, the Manager needs to help him out some. A lot of times he just did not get it done. He has great stuff. Maybe he is just not the type of guy that this team needs. DJ, I apologize for not thinking more before I posted. I just had a feeling the Yost talk was going to get out of hand. Though Id nip it in the butt.

[DougJones43]

I just had a feeling the Yost talk was going to get out of hand. Though Id nip it in the butt.

I don't think it's really up to you to decide what direction the discussion goes, as long as it's baseball relevant and not pure venting or asking for Ned to be fired. In this case, I think the Ned-related points were completely relevant to what was being discussed, and obviously the moderators did as well or they would have said something. However, a few people decided to take it upon themselves to scold the people who brought up Ned's impact on Turnbow, and that is just completely unnecessary.

[DougJones43]

DougJones he has the right to post about why people hate on Yost so much, it's his decision not yours lets just leave it as that.

 

It's not his decision. It's Brian's and the other mods. He doesn't have any right to attack people on an ad hominem level for their baseball beliefs.

[iluvlamp]

If he wants to be traded. Bye. I will not miss you.

If not, Doug please trade him.

If we keep him, Good God.

Somehow this is an uber-Haiku.

[PeaveyFury]

Let's not let this thread turn into another Yost thread.

[DougJones43]

Let's not let this thread turn into another Yost thread.

 

There you go. Fair enough.

[cooprules]

I'll chime in. I just don't think there's any way we can afford to have Turnbow pitch for us next year. Overused or not, when he was bad, he was absolutely terrible.

[Postseason2006]

Will someone tell me what good is a reliever that can't pitch two days in a row or with someone on base? This alone should be the reason Turnblow should never wear our uni again. If someone offers a Collector's Edition 12 pack of Blatz and Sunflowers for the guy, the trade should've been made months ago.