Brewer infield: defense and hitting issues

[RoseBowlMtg]

The future is very bright but these numbers need to get better to help our pitchers:

 

errors:

 

Braun: 26

Fielder: 14

Hardy: 13

Weeks: 13

 

and W/K's

 

Braun: 29/110

Fielder: 90/121

Hardy: 40/73

Weeks: 78/116

 

With maturity both of those stats and their productive outs and working the pitcher should all get better. The all or nothing approach needs to be tweaked with two strikes.

[RyDogg66]

The concerns I have are Braun's errors and BB:K ratio as well as Hardy's errors and BB:K ratio. Those both need to improve.

[whizkid]

Not sure why it was brought up in this thread and not that it's any way to judge defense, but people are posting concern about 13 errors for a ss?

[1992casey]

Not sure why it was brought up in this thread...

I'm not sure why it was working out that way, either. The posts expanding into Brewer infield issues have now been split from the Milwaukee MLB duo thread and given their own home here. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Patrick425]

I would like to see how many of the errors (especially for Braun and Weeks) were throwing errors and how many were fielding errors. Maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like Braun and Weeks make a lot of throwing errors.

[Fatter than Joey]

but it seems like Braun and Weeks make a lot of throwing errors

 

They do -- what bothers me about Weeks, is that when he is making a relay on a 2xplay, he never can get the ball to Prince more than 6 inches off the ground.

 

When Weeks doesn't make this throw, it doesn't show up in the stats.

[homer]

I actually thought Weeks got better at turning two this year. His issues seem to stem from trying to rush things and taking weird angles. I think he'll improve but he'll never be gold glove, IMO. He just doesn't have the instincts or the range (maybe not having the former leads to the latter).

[kgbaseball]

I just hate how Rickie used to try and play every ball to the side. It's definitely gotten better, but he still does it too often.

 

JJ's about as sure handed as it gets; it's his range that worries me.

[AJOHNSON104]

Since I don't think they are going to trade any of the 4 (with only a slight chance of Weeks or Hardy and no chance of the other 2), the only improvement will come from within. They could get another good glove utility guy to go with Counsell, but that won't help all that much either. The big thing here is to get Prince to play a better 1B, as he misses alot of those throws that are off. The error goes to the thrower, but a good first baseman can save many of those. Also, we all know about Braun needing to improve. If he can play the full season and get his Errors down to 20 and Prince reduces his by 5 and saves a few others, they wouldn't be bad.

As far as plate discipline, I don't have a huge problem with Hardy, but Braun needs to be more careful, especially if he's in front of Prince. He seems to have a good eye at times, and at other times seems to do the Bill Hall thing and expand his zone. Prince will get walked alot more next year if he continues to hit like this. Weeks showed lots of improvement late in the year, but he still needs to be careful that he doesn't get the 3TO thing going.

Overall, I would say they're top 5 offensively, so if they could at least be average defensively, it would be a plus.

[endaround]

I think people need to realize just how bad Braun's defense has been. He's last in Revised Zone Rating, and not last by a few points, but last by a huge gulf. Braun's RZR is .562 (yes he gets to just over half the balls in his zone). The next worst is .602. Braun needs to show a huge improvement just to match the next worst defender. Average for 3B is .675 (.681 if you exclude Braun). To give some sort of comparison, Weeks' is RZR is .788, Mark Ellis leads the league at .883. So basically the difference between Weeks and the best 2B is less than the difference between Braun and the average 3B.

[dannyjnoonan]

Maybe Braun would be better in the outfield and Bill Hall could play third again. Braun has a strong arm and Hall is a much more proven infielder.

[WV Brew]

Granted, Braun needs improvement. However 3B do tend to be error prone. For reference, in their first full year: Sal Bando 17 errors, Don Money 21, Mike Schmidt 17, Aramis Ramirez 25, Scott Rolen 24, Chipper Jones 25, Jeff Cirillo 18, Brooks Robinson 21, David Wright 24, some of your favorite HOF candidate Ron Santo 31. Perhaps Ryan Zimmerman and Alex Gordon with 15 and 14 errors are the exceptions. I realize Braun is not a full year either. He has time for improvement. I would like to see them bring in a mentor for spring training who is not one of the regular coaches.

[Fatter than Joey]

However 3B do tend to be error prone.

 

None of those dudes were near as bad as Braun

 

He has time for improvement. I would like to see them bring in a mentor for spring training who is not one of the regular coaches.

 

He really doesn't -- he is 23. He may be able to incrementally improve, but you are looking at a large part of what we are going to get.

[endaround]

Basically Braun is the reverse Nefi Perez.

[Fear The Chorizo]

He really doesn't -- he is 23. He may be able to incrementally improve, but you are looking at a large part of what we are going to get.

 

He's 23, but he hasn't played 3rd for his entire baseball career - he was a SS while at Miami, and I'm sure back to his H.S. days.

 

The difference between fielding the position at short and at third is much larger than the length of the throw across the diamond - 3rd basemen have to have awesome reflexes to be able to field both rocket shots down the line, as well as reading and reacting to slowly hit dribblers and bunts to get themselves in a position to make the "do or die" barehand grab/throw to first to get a runner speeding down the line. Not saying it's the correct thing to do, but this organization stuck with Weeks at 2nd while he's "developed" from a brutal to a poor defensive 2B(I think he's one of the best 2B in baseball at turning the double play with his arm strength...fielding and range are still bad though). Braun by no means will ever develop into a GG caliber 3B, but people have to remember that if it weren't for his unbelievable bat, he'd probably still be in A/AA working on improving and developing defensively at 3rd (He wouldn't have been a top 10 draft choice if he couldn't hit, obviously). Whether BFnet.com likes it or not, Braun will be the opening day starter defensively at 3rd in 08, and Hall will still be in CF. If Braun shows no signs of incremental improvement in 08, then I can see making the switch to a corner OF spot with him. I'd be fine with him in left next year too, but I think the Brewers' management is going to do the same thing that they did with Weeks' situation, whether that be good or bad for the Brewers in the long run remains to be seen.

 

I think the Brewers need to hire the Crime Dog (McGriff) to take Braun, Weeks, and Fielder under his wing, give them some adjustable foam hats, and have them fielding grounders and throwing into garbage cans Tom Emansky style all offseason - that would be the best way to improve Milwaukee's team defense.

 

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/emanski_mcgriff.jpg

[theavrock]

Braun is a much more natural hitter than Bill Hall ever was/will be. Wherever Braun goes, he is going to hit. At least I think so. CF is the toughest OF position to play. If Carlos Lee and Barry Bonds can play LF I am sure Braun can adjust to it. If we ever want to be a team that competes for a championship we need to improve our defense. As some have said most of our young guys arent going anywhere so that means we need toput them in positions where their strengths can be utilized and their weaknesses masked when possible.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Carlos Lee and Barry Bonds can play LF I am sure Braun can adjust to it.

 

I'm sure Braun could adjust to playing LF as well as Carlos Lee and Barry Bonds play it...in fact I'm sure that just about anyone who can afford a glove and sunglasses can play LF as well as Carlos Lee and Barry Bonds currently do. Moving a poor defensive infielder into the outfield doesn't guarantee that he'll be any good defensively either. Slightly weakening the outfield defense while significantly improving the infield defense would be something that I'm all for, as long as Braun can be serviceable in left.

 

I think the only way Braun moves to left next year is if the Brewers make a trade or sign an everyday third basemen with above-average defense and a serviceable bat they can slot in the #7 hole. I don't see Hall moving back to third after the Brewers spent an entire year letting him learn the position out in Center. One interesting option for them may be Joe Crede - assuming he's healthy from back surgery and that the Sox are content with giving Josh Fields the 3B spot on the south side. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he'll be eligible to become a free agent after the 08 season?) When healthy, he's a very good defensive 3rd baseman, but he's offensively challenged at times. His recent struggles are probably related to the fact that his back has been bad the past two seasons, so the only way I want him here is if he's fully recovered from the surgery. I would think his trade value is at an ideal low for Melvin to acquire him without giving up too much (since he really has no place on the Sox '08 roster), as long as he's healthy.

[Ennder]

maybe Koskie will come back!

 

I think the only way Hall moves to 3B and Braun to LF is if we get a new manager. I don't see Yost pulling that move but a new manager could do it.

[TooLiveBrew]

The future is very bright but these numbers need to get better to help our pitchers:

 

errors:

 

Braun: 26

Fielder: 14

Hardy: 13

Weeks: 13

 

and W/K's

 

Braun: 29/110

Fielder: 90/121

Hardy: 40/73

Weeks: 78/116

 

With maturity both of those stats and their productive outs and working the pitcher should all get better. The all or nothing approach needs to be tweaked with two strikes.

I can't believe you consider the two in bold-face problematic. Those ratios are fine, especially considering the power numbers involved. In fact, the only one on that list who really needs to improve BB/K is Braun. I understand why you left out Corey Hart (not an infielder), but his ratio was 36/99. Take a look at this list, post-ASB:

 

Braun: 18/75

Hardy: 12/25

Fielder: 49/49

Weeks: 47/58

Hart: 13/53

 

Get to know RZR (revised zone rating) a bit, as it will be very helpful in assessing players defensively. Simply using error totals, as mentioned, is very misleading. I'm not saying the infield defense doesn't need to get better - it does. However, the Brewers plan to keep Braun at 3B and accept less than solid defense, so I don't think we can reasonably expect anything but incremental improvement(s).

[logan82]

To make it easier to compare I think we should look at it like this

 

K/BB ratio

Braun: 3.79

Fielder: 1.34

Hardy: 1.83

Weeks: 1.49

[bork]

With the way Fielder and Weeks drew walks in the final two months, I predict that the single season walk record will fall next year (99 by Burnitz). Fielder will get walked more and more and Weeks would shatter the record if he can play a full season. The rest of the lineup needs to follow their lead.

 

The positive is that plate discipline and defense are two areas that typically improve as players get more experience.

[kgbaseball]

Rickie's K totals are definitely a concern. You can't have your leadoff hitter with above average speed striking out that often.

[TooLiveBrew]

sure you can, when he can still manage a .374 OBP. Besides, there's no reason to assume he'll be the leadoff man in 2008 yet.

 

To think of how high that OBP can climb now that he can actually hit again too, is just scary.

[Ennder]

Rickie's K totals are definitely a concern. You can't have your leadoff hitter with above average speed striking out that often.

 

Why exactly is that? If any player on my team is going to K Id' rather it be the leadoff hitter where it simply doesn't matter at all than any other slot in the order. This is one of those things I've never understood.

[kgbaseball]

I don't care about K totals if you're going to slug for a high percentage, but when you can use your speed like Rickie can, putting the ball in play is much more important. He can't steal first base.