Bullpen construction for 2008

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Bullpen

 

CL - Francisco Cordero (We'll grossly overpay for him, but our pen looks horrible without him)

SU - CJ Wilson (Acquried from Texas for Dave Bush, Tony Gwynn Jr., and Adam Heether)

SU - Seth McClung

MR - Derrick Turnbow

MR - Matt Wise

MR/LR - Manny Parra

LOOGY - Brian Shouse

 

Rotation

Ben Sheets

Yovani Gallardo

Carlos Villanueva

Jeff Suppan

Chris Capuano

[jhart05]

Improved defense will help out the pitching immensely.

[Zycho32]

I'm curious. Out of the Starter candidates who are NOT a lock-on for a rotation spot, which ones have the kind of mentality and tools which could translate to decent success in a vital bullpen role?

 

I know none of them are John Smoltz-esque, but if any of them could become a better alternative than what we could acquire in the off-season...

[Jay Zahn]

I'm incredulous that anyone would think the Brewers would go into next year with Turnbow as closer. You can't sell tickets to a team that's doing that. Closer by committee would be a better sell.

[pogokat]

Dave Bush was a closer until the blue jays converted him to starter...i'd depend on him close and late...and he could go a couple of innings...I think capuano would be a great reliever, but he's going to cost 5+ million next year...same deal as Vargas...i think he'd be good, but will cost too much...and probably wouldn't be too much better than mcclung or aquino...

 

i think we'll see 35 million arms at spring training next year, and that's the best way to do it..

[recte44]

So... are you proposing that the Brewers eat the $3.2 million that Turnbow is owed in 2008...?

No, proposing we deal him.

 

 

[soundsfan]

I would think Stetter is more cost effective then Ray King. Cheaper and performed better. Lets give this kid a chance

[Ennder]

CL - Cordero or Linebrink - We will re-sign one of them for this role.

SU - Dunno

SU - Dunno

MR - Derrick Turnbow - I think he can be effective as long as you baby him.

MR - Mitch Stetter -

MR/LR - Manny Parra - With his injury history and the depth at SP I think he'll be in the bullpen.

LOOGY - Brian Shouse - Probably the only no brainer in the bullpen.

 

Rotation

 

Ben Sheets

Yovani Gallardo

Carlos Villanueva

Jeff Suppan

Chris Capuano - The only question mark in the list, the other four are likely set in stone. I think we go with Capuano over Bush because of his potential shown in 2006 and the fact teams like to have one lefty in the rotation.

 

I think we are going to have two gaping holes in the bullpen or even three if we let Cordoro and Linebrink walk. I have no clue who we will get to fill them but hopefully at least one of them is a groundball specialist.

[bucksman4]

I wasn't impressed enough with Linebrink to think of making him our closer. If he's going to ask for big money, let him walk. Turnbow has asked to be traded and doesn't seem to realize he's being booed because he's stinking up the joint. That almost 5 ERA doesn't yell out "cheer for me!!," I'm sorry.

I say give Cordero a very respectable offer. If he really likes Milwaukee as much as he says, he might take a fair offer from us. McClung has as straight of a fastball as I've ever seen and wasn't very impressed with him. Wise is a goner, losing all of his confidence. And if Spurling is back, I'm going to have a bout of depression to overcome.

Get some fresh blood in there!!!

[lukevan]

Turnbow has asked to be traded

 

When did he do this?

[bucksman4]

When did he do this?

From Jsonline...

 

With a $3.2 million salary next year at the end of a three-year deal, Turnbow isn't going anywhere unless he is traded. He admitted the idea has crossed his mind to ask to be moved to another club but hasn't decided if he'll do so.

"I haven't gone to them and talked about it," he said. "I can't say I won't. (The booing) wears you down."

 

 

If he's being this honest and open with the media, you know he will at least bring up the topic with management. Why even say this if you're planning to come back?

[bklynbrewcrew]

As far as I am concerned Turnbow should be traded. He will never be reliable and his salary is definitely moveable. If we can get something useful for him I would very happily accomodate his wishes. I would love to send him to somewhere like Boston or Philadelphia where Im sure he will never get booed when he cant throw a pitch anywhere near the plate.

[JohnBriggs12]

The White Sox are looking for relievers though Turnbow is very similar to the guys that burned them this year (hard throwers with inconsistent command) so I'm not sure if Kenny Williams would be interested in Turnbow unless he was part of a package perhaps.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I don't think that Dave Bush will be a Brewer next year. He makes every start. You know what you are getting from him. He has more value to other teams than ours. With Yo and Carlos we can move a starter. I think Bush will be the one that generates the most interest.

[sgtcluels]

I like Bush a lot. The problem is when he hits the wall he's bad, but he has some nasty nasty stuff. I don't know if I'd trust him in the closer roll right away, but I think he might work well in the Pen.

 

 

SR:

Sheets

Gallardo

Soup

Capuano

Villy

 

Pen:

Gezz.. dont even know where to begin. So many problems, I feel bad for DM, he's got his work cut out for him.

[Dogger192003]

I like the thought of letting Cordero walk, he's going to likely get big money elsewhere. When you look at Cleveland's closing situation, I'd rather see if I could go that way.

Brian Fuentes or Jorge Julio could be available from Colorado. Fuentes lost his job to injury, Julio got off to a rough start but was a closer in the past and may make a good SU option.

I don't mind the thought of Bush to the pen because he has done it before and seems as though he may embrace the new role.

No matter what happens all I want is strike throwers in the pen, the most frustrating thing is RP's walking batters, I'd much rather they give up some hits here and there in a bad outing.

[lukevan]

From Jsonline...

With a $3.2 million salary next year at the end of a three-year deal, Turnbow isn't going anywhere unless he is traded. He admitted the idea has crossed his mind to ask to be moved to another club but hasn't decided if he'll do so.

"I haven't gone to them and talked about it," he said. "I can't say I won't. (The booing) wears you down."


If he's being this honest and open with the media, you know he will at least bring up the topic with management. Why even say this if you're planning to come back?

I've read that article, and we still can't say he's asked to be traded.

[logan82]

At this point would a good bulpen strategy be, Turnbow pitches on odd days and Wise pitches on even days?

 

EDIT: I am not sure if I mean this sarcastically or not. Both seem to pitch better if not on consecutive days. Turnbow is a little better on consecutive days than Wisse, but not much. Wouldn't we just be better off with somebody else who could pitch without these restrictions than taking up 2 roster spots with one effective guy? Maybe somebody who wouldn't need to be coddled so much.

[logan82]

Why do people have a problem with locking guys into innings? I understand being upset with Cordero not pitching earlier in games, but in Turnbow's case I don't understand the problem with bringing him in at the start of the 8th inning. He isn't somebody I would want to bring in with guys on base to stop a rally.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'm more optimistic on Turnbow than most of you. I think his biggest problem was overuse. 77 appearances for someone who throws like that and is not effective on consecutive days is poor bullpen management. They overused and abused him. Less appearances could make him more effective. I thought he did well most of the time, but when he blows up it's nasty.

 

Definetly re-sign Coco...although that will be tough.

 

How about Villy back in the pen in the 6/7th "Carlos Marmol" role? Could be an option. I thought Marmol was the biggest difference maker between us and the Cubs down the stretch. Then again, if he started the way he did down the stretch...maybe we wouldn't be so desperate for relief help in the 6th!

[Ennder]

I'm more optimistic on Turnbow than most of you. I think his biggest problem was overuse. 77 appearances for someone who throws like that and is not effective on consecutive days is poor bullpen management. They overused and abused him. Less appearances could make him more effective. I thought he did well most of the time, but when he blows up it's nasty.

 

Definetly re-sign Coco...although that will be tough.

 

How about Villy back in the pen in the 6/7th "Carlos Marmol" role? Could be an option. I thought Marmol was the biggest difference maker between us and the Cubs down the stretch. Then again, if he started the way he did down the stretch...maybe we wouldn't be so desperate for relief help in the 6th!

 

The biggest difference without question was defense but yes the Cubs using their best RP in games that matter instead of sitting on the bench while Aquino lost the game was a big reason we lost the division. That of course is just bad bullpen usage by Yost more than anything else.

[logan82]

I like the idea of Villy back in the stopper role, but I would rather give Villy the chance to get 200+ innings instead of limiting him to 70-100 innings. How about resigning CoCo and making Turnbow the closer? Keep CoCo as the stopper. I have no faith in any manager using a closer properly. The only way I see a manager using his best reliever properly is if he isn't the closer. I doubt Cordero will go for that. I remember him being very grateful at getting a chance to be the closer again when he came over. I also don't see him being happy if he misses out on saves, even if it would benefit the team. I think most closers would see this as taking money away from them.

[TooLiveBrew]

"A couple of high-priced pieces of Milwaukee's bullpen have reached free agency - Francisco Cordero and Scott Linebrink. According to Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the Brewers will make an aggressive offer to Cordero and hope to retain Linebrink as well.

My hunch is that both players leave for greener pastures. Cordero seems likely to earn at least a four-year, $40MM deal. That's elite closer territory. Linebrink should be compensated in the three years, $15-18MM range. While backloading is possible, the Brewers would be looking at adding $15MM per year on average to keep this pair.

My back of the napkin math says the Crew has around $60MM committed for '08. Only Ben Sheets will make more than $10MM. The Brewers' Opening Day '07 payroll was about $71MM, so there is room in the budget for both Cordero and Linebrink. The team's core players are very good and very cheap. The time to strike in free agency is now, so I actually endorse some pricier bullpen/rotation signings to get the team over the hump next year. I might go after Cordero but let Linebrink go. The Brewers could take payroll to a mere $80MM and have the best team in the NL Central."

 

That's from Tim Dierkes, the author of MLBTradeRumors.com. Not necessarily anything we didn't already know/haven't already discussed, but it's especially encouraging to hear that last line - from an admitted and avid Cubs fan, no less. I really kind of agree with him on signing Cordero (if he's willing to ink) and letting Linebrink walk, but 2008 may likely produce a Brewers squad without either one.

[logan82]

I have to say that I would be interested to know what a save is worth. Is Cordero that much better than Linebrink that he might get twice as much money and more years? To me this is one of the problems with using a closer properly. When used in nonsave situations are you taking money away from them?

 

Edit: How much money does a reliever similar to Cordero make if saves are not taken into account?

[strawbossisevil]

What if we did this.

 

We trade Gwynn for Otsuka (assuming his arm is better)

Resign Cordero and Linebrink for what they want, we should have the money at this point to offer them what they want.

Finally, use Parra in this year's Villenueva role.

 

Our bullpen would be:

Closer: Cordero

Set Up: Linebrink

Set Up: Otsuka

Middle/Long Relief: Parra

Middle Relief: Turnbow

Middle Relief: Wise (I think history has shown that he's a solid middle reliever, and probably could be again)

Lefty: Shouse

 

Our Rotation would then be:

1. Sheets

2. Gallardo

3. Villenueva

4. Suppan

5. Bush/Capuano

 

This would allow us to trade Vargas and either Bush or Capuano for options at catcher or outfield.