So what did we accomplish this season?

[danzig6767]

We were not a .500 team in 2005, we ended up .500, there is a big difference. The team way overachieved that season and it has little to do with last year or this year.

 

Last time i checked,teams final records aren't adjusted at the end of the season based on stat formulas of what some feel the record should have been.If you finish .500,you did actually win half your games.

 

[iluvlamp]

Nothing. People hate when I say it but...The goal is to win the World Series. Baby steps are fine but can be ultimately disappointing. I look forward to next season with a better staff because the offense will be stellar. Especially if Rickie keeps on keeping on. And. FNY.

[LUKE232323]

We were not a .500 team in 2005, we ended up .500, there is a big difference. The team way overachieved that season and it has little to do with last year or this year.

Last time i checked,teams final records aren't adjusted at the end of the season based on stat formulas of what some feel the record should have been.If you finish .500,you did actually win half your games.

 

Agreed 100%. If we're not going to use records to illustrate success, what should we use, fan perception?

We've gone from 81 to 75 to 82.

 

We haven't really improved in the last two seasons. The proof is in the pudding.

[danzig6767]

Nothing. People hate when I say it but...The goal is to win the World Series. Baby steps are fine but can be ultimately disappointing. I look forward to next season with a better staff because the offense will be stellar. Especially if Rickie keeps on keeping on. And. FNY.

If we bring back mostly all the same position players who play the same positions,the pitching staff better be pretty damn good if we want to prevent runs given the odds look high that the defense would be a weakness again.

 

[AJAY]

So what did we accomplish this season?

 

We showed Tony LaRussa and Albert Pujols that we are tougher than they are.

[iluvlamp]

I would not be opposed to moving Braun.

[Ennder]

We were not a .500 team in 2005, we ended up .500, there is a big difference. The team way overachieved that season and it has little to do with last year or this year.

Last time i checked,teams final records aren't adjusted at the end of the season based on stat formulas of what some feel the record should have been.If you finish .500,you did actually win half your games.

 

If this is how you are going to judge teams then you can continue to be clueless year after year. Teams do not always end up with the records they deserve and if you honestly think the 2005 team was a .500 quality team you are not a very good judge of talent. This is like judging how good a pitcher is by his win totals.

[brewmann04]

That this team needs to get better defensivly and get better in the Bullpen while also getting there Starters at least into the ^ inning of the game.

That they better find a way to be respectable on the Road and not blow 16 games when leading by At least 3 Runs.

If we fix those Issues we should be fine

[Ennder]

I agree completely with that brewmann. Defense and bullpen and well managing killed this team and that is where we need to fix things... that and maybe the C position. I stand by the opinion that an average manager has this team in the playoffs. Yost is below average by 3 to 4 games.

[kgbaseball]

They learned that Yo Gallardo absolutely has the ability to dominate Major League hitters.

[DougJones43]

Teams do not always end up with the records they deserve and if you honestly think the 2005 team was a .500 quality team you are not a very good judge of talent. This is like judging how good a pitcher is by his win totals.

First of all, those two things are nothing alike. A baseball team, as a whole, controls their W-L destiny much more than a pitcher does. Second, over a full 162 games, the 2005 Brewers outscored their opponents 726-697. And they played in a good division. So, in a way you're right - their talent level wasn't indicative of a .500 team. It was actually closer to a 84-78 team, according to their pythagorean record.

[TooLiveBrew]

That Ned Yost might not be the guy to get us where we need to go.

 

MIGHT?! Sorry. Tough night.

[twobrewers]

I'm not asking for individual accomplishments, I'm talking about the team as a whole.

I'm sorry, but that seems pretty ridiculous. Individual accomplishments are what makes up a team.

 

Make a list of how many players progressed and how many regressed - there is plenty to be excited about heading into 2008.

 

Saying we accomplished nothing because we didn't win the World Series is awefully harsh. Did you boo and scorn the team for failing to win the World Series in 1982? (Because the rest of us have been celebrating that for 25 years)

 

Honestly, if you can't find anything to be exciting about heading into 2008 - well, I am just at a loss of words for how quickly everyone is to turn on the Brewers.

[danzig6767]

We were not a .500 team in 2005, we ended up .500, there is a big difference. The team way overachieved that season and it has little to do with last year or this year.

Last time i checked,teams final records aren't adjusted at the end of the season based on stat formulas of what some feel the record should have been.If you finish .500,you did actually win half your games.

 

If this is how you are going to judge teams then you can continue to be clueless year after year. Teams do not always end up with the records they deserve and if you honestly think the 2005 team was a .500 quality team you are not a very good judge of talent. This is like judging how good a pitcher is by his win totals.

 

Where did i say that team had the same promise as this team?In the end though,both are going to win roughly the same amount of games and that's what matters when you play a sport.Bud Selig isn't going to hand out a Pythagorean Theorem trophy out this year.

Obviously i like the future more of this team going forward than that 2005 team,anyone with a pea sized brain can see that.The fact though that the 2005 team will have roughly the same record as this year means they accomplished the same thing,winning half their games,whether one may have under or overachieved doesn't matter squat for that given season.If we win 81-82 games again next season,am i supposed to feel swell because we'll have likely unachieved instead of supposedly overachieving like the 2005 Brewers did?

At some point soon the excuses for finishing around .500 at best have to end,next year being a good starting point for it.Some here might be fine next year if we win say 82 games,but the Pythagorean Theorem or some other abbreviated stat says we should have won 88.Just don't count me in that camp.

 

[Ennder]

Teams do not always end up with the records they deserve and if you honestly think the 2005 team was a .500 quality team you are not a very good judge of talent. This is like judging how good a pitcher is by his win totals.

First of all, those two things are nothing alike. A baseball team, as a whole, controls their W-L destiny much more than a pitcher does. Second, over a full 162 games, the 2005 Brewers outscored their opponents 726-697. And they played in a good division. So, in a way you're right - their talent level wasn't indicative of a .500 team. It was actually closer to a 84-78 team, according to their pythagorean record.

The 2005 Brewers had an OPS+ of 104 and an OPS+ against of 106.

 

The 2007 Brewers have an OPS+ of 106 and an OPS+ against of 100.

 

I couldn't find the W3 for the 2005 team but I can almost gaurentee its lower than this year. Our pitching is better(even with the horrible defense) and our offense is better this year than in 2005.

[iluvlamp]

"Saying we accomplished nothing because we didn't win the World Series is awfully harsh. Did you boo and scorn the team for failing to win the World Series in 1982? (Because the rest of us have been celebrating that for 25 years)"

 

I don't boo or scorn any team that I didn't watch when I was 6. But I will boo and scorn a team that choked away a 8 game lead. Accomplishment is a difficult thing to wrap heads around, but I ask, what is the goal? To win 82 games? Will you settle for that? Is that what you want?

 

I have waited my whole life for this team to win a WS, so I am sorry if I am a little pissed off that they have been terrible(the last million years). So Sorry. I didn't realize I was waiting for me to grace their presence after all these years.

 

Does anyone realize how much crap Bud put this team through? NO PAYROLL! JUNK PLAYERS! FOCUSING ON HIS GOALS RATHER THAN THE BREWERS! JUNK SCOUTING! A DAUGHTER WHO WAS BRAIN DEAD....I AM THE ONLY ONE! AM I? LET'S JUST START A PITY PARTY FOR ALL THE FANS THAT HAVE HAD TO SIT THROUGH INCOMPETENCE FOR 25 YEARS...I AM SICK OF IT.

 

REALLY!

[danzig6767]

I agree completely with that brewmann. Defense and bullpen and well managing killed this team and that is where we need to fix things... that and maybe the C position. I stand by the opinion that an average manager has this team in the playoffs. Yost is below average by 3 to 4 games.

 

I've been annoyed by the defense as you are,but looking at the most likely makeup of the team next year,where is the fix for the defense?

If our infield stays intact,which odds look high will be the case,that leaves everything on that area of the field to improve simply via Braun/Weeks/Prince being a year older/experience.Maybe that does the trick and they improve quite a bit defensively,i'm just not overly confident that they will improve all that much.

I like Hart's improvement defensively and think he'll only get better in the field.Hall in center got better,but i question if he'll be better than average next year if left to play there.Hard to know who fills the last outfield spot.If Estrada is back at catcher,that's more bad defense.

Unless say Braun gets moved to the outfield next year and Hall put at third,barring some other big trade,the team will likely have the majority of the same bad defense back playing the same positions.Then it's left to hope and pray the guys improve alot in one offseason,i wish i felt strongly that will work out as well as they plan it to.

 

[DougJones43]

The 2005 Brewers had an OPS+ of 104 and an OPS+ against of 106.

 

The 2007 Brewers have an OPS+ of 106 and an OPS+ against of 100.

 

I couldn't find the W3 for the 2005 team but I can almost gaurentee its lower than this year. Our pitching is better(even with the horrible defense) and our offense is better this year than in 2005.

 

So wait, I'm confused as to what exactly your argument is. Just before, you were trying to say that anybody who thought the 2005 Brewers were a .500 talent-level team was clueless and a poor judge of talent. I think you realized that argument wasn't as sound as you originally thought, so you've tried to shift gears and now point out that the 2007 Brewers are more talented than the 2005 Brewers? I don't see how that's really relevant to your original argument. It doesn't exactly offer much "proof" to back up your earlier insistance that the 2005 team wasn't .500 talent.

[jackalope02ca]

What did we accomplish?

Well for starters we showed we are for real and not a team to take for granted anymore. We solidified ourselves on the National League map.

We showed that we have tremendous young talent in many positions and they now have the bitter taste of losing out at the last minute on a pennant and will hopefully come back next year with a little more drive and knowing what they need to do to get that pennant.

We gelled more as a team.

Every team has it's weakness but I think we also showed that Melvin needs to shore up the bullpen. We have surplus starting pitching to move to do so.

Some kids named Gallardo and Braun who had never played in the majors before showed they are not only ready to play in the majors but that they will likely never know what kind of relaxing things players do during the allstar break as they will always be playing in the game.

The fan base showed they will support a winner and loaded up Mark A with enough to give Doug the money to fill in the gaps the team showed.

Sure there were a few negatives but the positives far outweighed them.

[craigharmann]

Good things:

1. Prince is a STUD hitter. Not just a power hitter, but hitting the ball to all fields. As he continues to mature, he's only going to get better.

 

2. Braun has a shot at a triple crown in the near future. Just saying it now. He's good. REALLY good.

 

3. Yo is a stud pitcher and will be the ace of this staff sooner than later.

 

4. Corey Hart is amazing. Great combo of power and speed. I think he's heading for a 30-30 year next year.

 

5. Villy will be in the starting rotation next year. He did great work this year.

 

6. Franchise record for homers was set.

 

 

Bad things

1. Franchise record for homers was set. It seemed at times that they were trying to hit the 8 run homer a bit too much and not playing the fundamentals.

 

2. Defense was sad. Plenty of opportunities were cost because of errors or mental mistakes.

 

3. Bill Hall. I think in the beginning of the season it was the change of position that affected him at the plate. I don't think he ever got comfortable. Next year, different story. I'm really pulling for a bounce back year from him.

 

4. Sheeter. Love the guy, but I'm really wondering about him. I'm really hoping that in his contract year next year, he pitches tough and the freak injuries don't happen to him anymore.

 

5. Bullpen. Wow. Probably the worst part of the team. We all were talking about it coming out of Spring Training. You've got Coco, who was probably the most dependable. He NEEDS to be back. I'd like to see Linebrink and King back as well, giving some veteran leadership. Other than that, to me, blow it up. McClung, Spurling and Aquino pitched well in spots. I don't know if they're the guys or not. But that's the biggest point to work from this winter.

 

This team proved a lot to me. They're fun, play well together, and you could see them jelling as a team. This is going to be a fun ride for the next few years.

[Fatter than Joey]

That Prince Fielder is a legitimate stud and will have had an MVP season shortly.

And Ryan Braun will be ROTY soon as well.

And Rickie Weeks IS who we thought he would be, as long as his wrist is ok.

 

Agreed. However I hope we learned that we can't understate the defensive liabilities that these 3 players (and Bill Hall in CF) bring to the game.

 

We learned that Melvin is not an infallible genius, and he needs to have a better offseason

 

We learned that Yost getting ejected/suspended and calling out the fans, in the last week of the season is counterproductive.

 

We learned that OBP is just as (if not more) vital than SLG.

 

I personally have learned that "treadng water" is most often a precursor to drowning, which is how I would describe our collective effort from 2005-2007.

[Invader3K]

It's been a mixed season. I think people are finally taking the Brewers seriously as contenders in the NL Central, both throughout the league and in the media. Still, I was figuring the team was going to be more in the 85-87 win range, so only 81-83 wins is a little disappointing, especially given the circumstances of the season. I do appreciate that the team was playing meaningful baseball in September, and not just conducting early spring training.

 

Some big choices will have to be made by Melvin (and Attanasio) this off-season.

[dvoiss]

I still feel a lot of this teams problems can be summed up in one word: YOUTH. This team failed because they were inconsistent. Young teams are inconsistent. The reason they blew an eight game lead was because they couldn't maintain their April pace because they were young and inconsistent. I think because of their talent level many people expected these guys to play like a veteran club and that just didn't happen.

 

But I think they accomplished a lot. To suggest they are no better than the 05 team is way off base. If someone offered to trade you the 05 team for this team would you make the deal? Of course not.

 

Accomplishments:

 

1) Yo and CV proved they can be top of the rotation starters

2) Prince, Braun and Hart proved that they are absolute studs

3) Jenkins managed to play his way out of a $9M option for next year. This is money which can now be used elsewhere.

4) Johnny "1st pitch" Estrada proved he aint the answer behind the plate.

5) Set the team home run record

 

There is still some work to do particularly in the bullpen which nedds to be rebuilt. We need to improve LF and C. Other than that it looks pretty solid. We start next year with a rotation of Sheets, Yo, CV, Bush and Suppan. The offense has some people who can seriously rake. It looks pretty good from where I'm sitting.

[BCZF]

We also learned that $300 million doesn't necessarily buy you the ability to steamroll your way to the top of the division.

[naivin]

Established 2 elite players in the league in Fielder and Braun (offensively anway).

 

Identified 2 key peices of a starting rotation in Gallardo and Villenueva.

 

Learned what we need to learn about Turnbow, and the bullpen in general.

 

Established that Ben Sheets simply cannot be relied upon in future seasons.

 

Established Corey Hart as a starting OFer, 5th or 6th hitter for years to come.

 

Established your leadoff hitter and 2B.

 

Set the infield for years to come.

 

Said goodbye to Geoff Jenkins.

 

Set a to priority for the off-season - improve the bullpen!

 

Gained tremendously valuable experience in a high pressure situation.

 

If the last week or so proved anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, its that this team simply was not ready for prime time. They wilted big time under the pressure, and their flaws were clearly exposed. That is worth something. Heading into the off-season there are clearly identified areas in which they need to improve. They are close. Now its up to Melvin and Co. to address those areas. I believe the Brewers and Cubs will battle it out again next year, only I expect them both to have win totals up around 90 or higher.