Getting Joe Nathan would be quite sweet

[And That]

I mentioned this in one of threads on the major league forum, but since this is more of a trade thought, I thought I'd post it here. I was talking to a couple Twins fans today, and we sort of worked out a deal between the Twins and the Brewers for Joe Nathan:

 

Bill Hall and Mat Gamel for Joe Nathan.

 

I'd be comfortable with that, provided we had a few days of access beforehand to Nathan, to see if he was amiable to signing an extension. I like Nathan a lot more than Cordero, which is why I'd be willing to give up that much for possibly one year of him.

 

FWIW, in the same discussion they said they'd give up Santana for Weeks and Jeffress.

[sbrylski]

For reference - Nathan will make $6 million next season and will be a free agent in the following offseason.

 

I'd also love Nathan, but if we can't afford Cordero we sure won't be able to afford Nathan. I also wouldn't want to use Hall, but I'm not sure what else we could give. We've got Hall locked up to a reasonable contract and we'd be dealing him with low value. I think he'll bounce back nicely, and if reassigned to the super-starter role he could be very valuable for us next season.

 

If we could find a guy that's less proven or hasn't really been a closer, I think we can find a deal that way. Damaso Marte might be a cheaper, maybe go after Joaquin Benoit.

[And That]

If we could find a guy that's less proven or hasn't really been a closer, I think we can find a deal that way. Damaso Marte might be a cheaper, maybe go after Joaquin Benoit.

I dunno, I think that's part of the problem with this franchise now that we're good. I'm not saying we shouldn't go out and get an undervalued guy for a setup role, but we're going to be really good next year if we have a decent pen. Joe Nathan is a great closer, and the Twins are more than willing to trade him, from what I gather. Hall would be dealt at a low value point, but I'd rather have Gwynn in CF and Nathan as closer than Hall in CF and a ? in the closer's role.

I'd also like the Brewers to go hard after Carl Crawford, moving Hart in CF and Mench/Gross to right.

[sbrylski]

Ask you buds if they'd take Gwynn+a pitcher for Nathan. I'd do that.

 

And if we're giving Hall for Nathan, how are we getting Crawford?

[dadofandrew]

For a single year of Nathan, I'm certainly not trading 3 years of Hall. Doug will find a closer, either in free agency, sign one of our own maybe, and will do it without trading any of the core.

[And That]

And if we're giving Hall for Nathan, how are we getting Crawford?

My thought was something along the lines of Estrada, Bush/Vargas, Turnbow and ZachJack. I'd even pay part of their salaries.

 

[And That]

For a single year of Nathan, I'm certainly not trading 3 years of Hall. Doug will find a closer, either in free agency, sign one of our own maybe, and will do it without trading any of the core.

Well, that's part of my point with the discussion about a contract before we actually trade for him. I'm also not sure how much Bill Hall is a part of the core.

 

[dadofandrew]

Gwynn might be dealt to pick up a reliever, but Hall won't be. Long-term deals mean nothing if you trade the guy a year in.

[And That]

Gwynn might be dealt to pick up a reliever, but Hall won't be. Long-term deals mean nothing if you trade the guy a year in.

Long terms deals are also terrible when you sign a home-grown guy to a contract that he isn't keeping up.

 

Edit: Also, Hall's deal buys out one year of free agency. Hardly long term, to be specific about it.

[sbrylski]

And if we're giving Hall for Nathan, how are we getting Crawford?

My thought was something along the lines of Estrada, Bush/Vargas, Turnbow and ZachJack. I'd even pay part of their salaries.

 

I look at that from a D-Rays perspective and see a bunch of "garbage". With Braun and Gallardo "breaking out" for us this season, we won't be trading them for him, but the last season versions of them are what the D-Rays will want.

 

LaPorta+pitching, probably Jeffress or Parra. Basically I don't see Crawford coming here.

 

[colbyjack]

Yeah, no way that package lands Crawford, who clearly is atop almost everyone's wish list around these parts. Last offseason there were rumors that Crawford was available, but that the D-Rays were looking for two or three top pre-arby pitchers. Basically, he wasn't available. There was one rumored deal that included Ervin Santana, and another involving one of the top pitching prospects in the game that now escapes me, of which the D-Rays turned down both.

 

As sbrylski06 noted, if Parra or other top prospects and/or young players aren't involved, I strongly doubt it's going to happen.

 

Hall and Gamel for Nathan is interesting, if as you say the Brewers could work out a contract extension. I agree, getting Nathan would be awesome. Did your Twins fans friends have interest in Hall as Hunter's replacement or as a SS?

[And That]

Hall and Gamel for Nathan is interesting, if as you say the Brewers could work out a contract extension. I agree, getting Nathan would be awesome. Did your Twins fans friends have interest in Hall as Hunter's replacement or as a SS?

They want Hall in CF. The Twins are mostly satisfied with Bartlett at SS.

And Crawford is a different position this offseason, with all due respect. He's close to entering FA, and he didn't improve much on last season.

[splitterpfj]

I like Crawford, but I think most have expected a step up into MVPville, which has not materialized. I don't know if Toby's suggestion would get him, but I do think he could be had.

 

Hall in the center of a deal for Nathan would be fun. I do think Billy's name is going to bounce around quite a bit this off-season.

[Oldcity]

I think I'd like this. Then you put Hart in center, platoon Gross/Dillon in one corner spot and find the other corner outfielder in free agency or trade. That part shouldn't be too hard, as decent corner outfielders aren't too hard to find. Nathan is a top 5 relief pitcher so it's worth it.

[gregmag]

I also wouldn't want to use Hall, but I'm not sure what else we could give. We've got Hall locked up to a reasonable contract and we'd be dealing him with low value. I think he'll bounce back nicely, and if reassigned to the super-starter role he could be very valuable for us next season.

 

This sums up my thoughts about dealing Hall exactly. He's a talented player who had an off year; I'm not saying he'll ever have another 2006, but his age, skill set, and the fact that he was learning a new position are three good reasons to think he'll be substantially better next year. In addition, we need him; we aren't exactly rolling in impact outfielders.

 

The Crawford idea certainly has appeal. He's only 25, with a broad skill set, and thus likely to get better. But as an upgrade over Hall, his basic advantage is age -- he got good faster than Hall did, but he's stayed at the same level for three years, and he's basically about as valuable as Hall was at 25 (two years ago). If part of this discussion requires a comparison between Hall and Crawford, I'm not sure the upgrade, by itself, would be worth the other young talent it would take to make the whole thing happen.

 

I understand the idea of trading Hall, because we really don't have much to trade outside of some middling pitchers. Our guys are either so young, cheap, and good that trading them is almost inconceivable or so old, expensive, and marginal that trading them is almost inconceivable. It would be nice if we had pitching depth in the minors . . . but I guess that's the price for the difference between 19 good innings from Joe Thatcher and 24 good innings from Scott Linebrink.

 

Greg.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd be more interested in a lesser deal with Twins, say Mench for Rincon.

 

Twins could use a platoon partner in LF for Kubel. Rincon is a buy low guy after a poor year for him. Money wouldn't factor in much either.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Mench for Rincon would be an outstanding deal for the Brewers. Sign me up!

[endaround]

No way do the Brewers resign Mench anyway. And Crawford is still going to be expensive since his contract runs until 2010. Its 5.25, 8.25, and then 10 with the last two years being club options. So thats going to be a lot to give up for a guy who has been only slightly above average in a corner OF spot, and his value is almost entirely due to his speed. He had an 820 OPS this year with BABIP of .375. Warning signs abound.

[dadofandrew]

If Mench has indeed had interest, they'll offer him arby and deal him. If not, I don't think he'll be back. He sure has shown up in trade rumors a lot, and without exception, been followed by a "the Brewers have said he is not available" to not have any interest.

[Katuluu]

While Nathan is probably the best closer in baseball, it's not like Cordero is a huge step down. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to trade all that talent for a player that is essentially the same as you already have control of. You might as well sign Cordero to an extension and deal Hall and Gamel for other help. I'm sure the Twins would be seriously interested in Hall as a CF and Gamel would probably wet their appetite as well. But if it I was me I would target Neshek/Perkins/Crain (in descending order of want) + Kubel for those two. Preferrably Neshek or Perkins as the centerpiece. They are both young, cheap, would be under our control for several years, and have serious upside.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I'll go on record by saying that I would trade Hall, Gamel, Weeks, and Jeffress for Nathan/Santana

 

While I feel that Weeks "gets it" and had an outstanding final two months of the season, Hall is simply filler. Next year is our best chance (maybe in my lifetime) to win a world series.

 

Hart, Hardy, and Fielder are getting closer to arbitration. Sheets has one year left. Gallardo, Villy, Parra, and Braun are one year closer to arbitration... we have the possibility to be great. We have ONE Elite Player (Fielder), we have some very good young players. Now we need a few ELITE players to push us over the top

 

Santana, Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villy

Nathan, Parra, Turnbow, Bush, FA, FA, FA

 

Our Offensive Core is set: Hart, Hardy, Braun, Fielder. We can trade Cappy/Vargas for spare parts

 

I realize this is putting alot of eggs in one basket... but revenue from a World Series season coupled with 7 1st round picks (Cordero/Linebrink in '08, Santana/Sheets/Nathan in '09 will let us reload over and over and over

[Oldcity]

I don't see the point in trading for Santana. It would take a ton to get him and the Brewers wouldn't be able to re-sign him.

 

Also, I'd guess it would take more to get Neshek than it would to get Nathan.

[dadofandrew]

Neshek does probably have more value, given his inexpensive, locked-in status. However, last I saw, LH bats hit Neshek pretty well, meaning he's unlikely to ever be anything but a mediocre at best closer.

[sbrylski]

Neshek does probably have more value, given his inexpensive, locked-in status. However, last I saw, LH bats hit Neshek pretty well, meaning he's unlikely to ever be anything but a mediocre at best closer.

I think you remembered wrong...

Career vLHB - .201 BA / .608 OPS

 

[dadofandrew]

BR has him at about .300/.400, not a bad 700ish OPS, but he dominates RH's.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=neshepa01&year=00