STLToday writer talks about Yost's decision making in 9/26 game

[TooLiveBrew]

well, diskono, I guess what I can say to that is that there's a gigantic difference between intentionally given the team that leads you more baserunners and having said team earn more baserunners off a reliever put in a situation in which he has a history of succeeding.

[pretendastronaut]

What if Ned brought in Turnbow instead of McClung, then Turnbow walked Pujols before striking out Ludwick? The game situation is exactly the same, but now, all of a sudden, you can't use the "lol ned yost thinks retaliation is more important than winning" excuse!

 

No its not exactly the same, because if Turnbow walks Pujols, he should be pulled immediately, because we're all to familar with what's about to happen. Yost has been much better down the stretch at pulling Turnbow after something like that, so in that scenario, the situations are much different. In one you're most likely pulling Turnbow with runners on base, and in the other you're giving him an inherited runner.

[TooLiveBrew]

Mongo like inherited runners!

[olliegjw]

What if Ned brought in Turnbow instead of McClung, then Turnbow walked Pujols before striking out Ludwick? The game situation is exactly the same, but now, all of a sudden, you can't use the "lol ned yost thinks retaliation is more important than winning" excuse!

No its not exactly the same, because if Turnbow walks Pujols, he should be pulled immediately, because we're all to familar with what's about to happen. Yost has been much better down the stretch at pulling Turnbow after something like that, so in that scenario, the situations are much different. In one you're most likely pulling Turnbow with runners on base, and in the other you're giving him an inherited runner.

 

In his career, before last night, Turnbow had inherited 60 runners, and only 20 scored. I don't see what the difference is. It's not like he goes from winding up to pitching out of the stretch. It's also not like he's holding a runner on, because runners never get thrown out when him or Cordero are pitching. He just needs to get the batter out. He didn't do that. And like others have mentioned, it wasn't just Pujols that scored. Three other guys scored as well. It is very Bartman-esque how everyone focuses on the one play.

[Diskono]

I don't buy the argument that Turnbow automatically sucks when runners are on:

 

No runners on:

.132/.309/.225

 

Runners on:

.241/.323/.313

 

Obviously, he's been great with no runners on base, but he hasn't exactly been bad with runners on.

[Bucky Rules]

you think Fielder hits better when he's mad?

 

I do.

 

 

The question isn't whether he hits better, it's whether he walks better. Turnbow didn't give anyone a chance to hit.

[TooLiveBrew]

diskono, while I agree that TBow hasn't been gawd-awful, why would you not take the better of two choices? I feel like this has been the game all year long with Yost - hoping that something with a lower success rate will work out when he has a better option available. Why risk it? It's not like the game wasn't important or was out of hand.

 

One more thing - granted, in a small sample, but Pujols career v. TBow: .143/.250/.286/.536

 

I'd like to play those numbers.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

1) Ned did it.

 

2) He probably would have pitched around Pujols there anyway, so there likely would have been a runner on.

 

3) The relievers blew it.

 

4) It was still a dumb thing to do by Ned. It was all about his ego and he fell right into LaRussa's trap. Getting yourself and McClung suspended was just plain stupid.

 

5) Ned isn't more of a man for doing this...he comes off like a child.

 

This is coming from a pro-Yost guy too.

[AJAY]

You would think our own local writers would have the guts to speak out on this issue. This is the type of story that Michael Hunt should be writing a column about.

[pretendastronaut]

The issue with Turnbow and runners on, is that he is more prone to crack mentally anymore when under pressure. I'm leaving for the game myself, so this is a quick and an obviously small sample, but here are his results when either allowing a runner or inheriting a runner this month alone. I'm not listing his apperances that had no baserunners at all here;

 

9-26: IP: .1 Inherited/Scored: 1/1 - ER: 3 - Batters Faced: 4 - Hits: 1 - Walks: 2

9-22: IP: 0 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 0 - Batters Faced: 1 - Hits: 0 - Walks: 1

9-19: IP: .2 Inherited/Scored: 2/2 - ER: 0 - Batters Faced: 3 - Hits: 1 - Walks: 0

9-18: IP: 1 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 0 - Batters Faced: 4 - Hits: 0 - Walks: 1 *We were up 7-1

9-15: IP: .2 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 0 - Batters Faced: 4 - Hits: 0 - Walks: 1

9-12: IP: .2 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 3 - Batters Faced: 6 - Hits: 2 - Walks: 2

9-11: IP: 1 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 0 - Batters Faced: 3 - Hits: 0 - Walks: 1 *We were up 6-1

9-09: IP: 1 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 0 - Batters Faced: 4 - Hits: 1 - Walks: 0 *We were up 10-5

9-03: IP: .1 Inherited/Scored: 0/0 - ER: 3 - Batters Faced: 4 - Hits: 1 - Walks: 2

 

In most of these instances he doesn't finish the inning, and when he has, we were up big, thus the pressure was very low. I want to like Turnbow, but ever since last year, when rattled, he can't pull it together. That's why I say you don't bring him up in that situation.

[DougJones43]

You would think our own local writers would have the guts to speak out on this issue. This is the type of story that Michael Hunt should be writing a column about.

 

I couldn't agree more. I have to imagine that if Ned was in any other sports market, the media would be absolutely crushing him. The JS Brewers beat writers are pathetic, cowardly yes-men, and I don't believe any of them have a very good understanding of baseball.

 

And as for the article, this stuff is getting out of control. Ned Yost has surpassed being just a bad manager - he has become an embarassment to the franchise. Everybody (Brewer fans, Cubs fans, every other team's fans, Baseball Prospectus, the St. Louis media, etc.) is laughing at what a buffoon this guy is. I just can't imagine that kind of stuff doesn't affect Mark A. and Doug Melvin at least a little bit. They have to be aware of the nation-wide perception, and although personnel decisions shouldn't necessarily be based on public opinion, nobody (particularly a good businessman) can be happy about once again being a laughingstock of baseball. I really hope that their indifferent demeanor is just a facade, intended to avoid distraction until the season is over. After that, I think we will see where they really stand...

[iluvlamp]

I wish there was a clap avatar! Somehow I double posted but I will Clap again!

[iluvlamp]

You would think our own local writers would have the guts to speak out on this issue. This is the type of story that Michael Hunt should be writing a column about.

 

I couldn't agree more. I have to imagine that if Ned was in any other sports market, the media would be absolutely crushing him. The JS Brewers beat writers are pathetic, cowardly yes-men, and I don't believe any of them have a very good understanding of baseball.

 

And as for the article, this stuff is getting out of control. Ned Yost has surpassed being just a bad manager - he has become an embarassment to the franchise. Everybody (Brewer fans, Cubs fans, every other team's fans, Baseball Prospectus, the St. Louis media, etc.) is laughing at what a buffoon this guy is. I just can't imagine that kind of stuff doesn't affect Mark A. and Doug Melvin at least a little bit. They have to be aware of the nation-wide perception, and although personnel decisions shouldn't necessarily be based on public opinion, nobody (particularly a good businessman) can be happy about once again being a laughingstock of baseball. I really hope that their indifferent demeanor is just a facade, intended to avoid distraction until the season is over. After that, I think we will see where they really stand...

I wish there was a clap avatar!

 

[endaround]

You know, I think I figured out what happend. Yost saw that Cox got the record for most ejections in a career and though "Well, I'll never get 12 straight division titles, but heck I can get myself thrown out of nearly every game! Take that Bobby!"