STLToday writer talks about Yost's decision making in 9/26 game

[tomwopat]

this has to be the biggest embarrassment since Homer said "Take that, Milwaukee!" after Springfield was declared the fattest city by the Duff Book of World Records.

[hawing]

I apologize for nitpicking, but I believe Homer said, "In your face, Milwaukee!"

[JohnBriggs12]

Rooney isn't a brain surgeon either and neither is that dimwit partner of his Mike Shannon

 

I guess I'm alone in giving Yost the benefit of the doubt here. Strange isn't it from the guy someone accused of ripping Yost in every post I made just a couple days ago?

[bjkrautk]

I'm just glad to know that pitching around Albert Pujols prevented the next 2 Brewers relievers from ending the inning.

 

(That, and it prevented the Brewers from scoring any more runs....when they were already behind.)

 

 

IMO, you might as well blame Ned for stranding 9 baserunners through 4 innings.

[TheBwaz]

I have been silently railing at Yost for 5 years for never retaliating. Never, ever would he purpose plunk a guy, even when it was obvious we were getting thumped. Fine that is his thing. To all of a sudden decide to do it NOW? Oy and vey. When they announced McClung, I told my wife "Oh (cow pies) he is gonna drill Pujols to lead off the inning." Next thing ya know...

To do this time of year, behind, in a VITAL game? Well, I don't think I have ever said it before, but Yost should be toast.

LaRussa? He is drunk scum. Is there any way we can deliver 20 butterburgers and a case of MGD to him, tie him down, and make him eat it.

[pretendastronaut]

How sad is the JS staff, when they barely do more than recount the bad decision, and the Chicago and St. Louis media are the ones to take Yost to task instead?

[pretendastronaut]

I'm just glad to know that pitching around Albert Pujols prevented the next 2 Brewers relievers from ending the inning.

 

(That, and it prevented the Brewers from scoring any more runs....when they were already behind.)

 

 

IMO, you might as well blame Ned for stranding 9 baserunners through 4 innings.

I don't know how many times I personally have repeated this since last night, along with several other people, but here's another because it doesn't seem to be being read by the Yost supporters.

Nobody is excusing the bullpen from not doing their job, Turnbow not being able to throw a strike anywhere near the plate is inexcusable. Plenty of people have pointed out how many runners were left on and opportunities wasted. The point is the move put the team in a position to fail, and fail they did. There's accountability on both sides. You can be upset they failed, but you should also be upset they were put into a position to fail to make a worthless "statement".

If people want to defend Yost, that's your prerogative, but quit doing it by mislabeling the argument, its getting mighty frustrating.

[JohnBriggs12]

To amplify TheBwaz point about Yost never retaliating, the Brewers have 3 of the top 10 in the league (4 in the top 20) in being hit by pitch. Fielder is 4th, Weeks is 6th, and Hart is 9th. Jenkins is 20th.

 

By contrast Pujols and Howard, the two sluggers most comparable to Fielder have been hit just 7 and 5 times respectively to Fielder's 14. Part of the reason I'm giving Yost the benefit of the doubt is that it's out of character for him to retaliate. But if he did do it, I'm not all that upset that he did, and it would come nowhere near to being one of his worst managerial moves. The loss last night was on Turnbow and the hitters not the manager (other than not pulling T-Bow sooner perhaps.)

 

BTW, just to show how much Rooney is a La Russa lackey, he was spouting out how the Brewers do this stuff all the time. Say what John?

[BREWCREW5]

hard to argue with anything that was said in that article....

 

I cant believe that Yost did that, especially with Mark A. in attendance!

[olliegjw]

As I stated in the IGT, this is similar to the Bartman game for the Cubs in 2003. The Brewers were not going to give Pujols anything to hit, so why throw four pitches when one will do the job. Even after the HBP, the Brewers had two outs and only a man on first. They gave it away from there, just like the Cubs self-imploded after the Bartman foul ball. Turnbow and Shouse could not close the deal. That had nothing to do with the HBP, and everything to do with the bullpen not doing their job.

 

P.S. - I believe the real mistake was not bringing in Cordero once Turnbow loaded the bases. You can't get more of a high pressure situation than that, and your best reliever should be on the mound.

[Bucky Rules]

I agree with Ollie 100%.

Personally, I think the whole man-up-gamesmanship of hitting each other players is pretty lame to begin with. But, if you're going to do it, this was the situation to do it in. In the game situation that we were in, you're best off pitching around Pujols anyway, so hitting him doesn't make much difference unless you buy into the waking the sleeping dogs theory. Which I might give some credence to if Turnbow actually made them swing at anything remotely close to the plate. But STL didn't "wake up", they stared at pitches that were a foot and a half off the plate.

If Ned is to be blamed, it's for not bringing in Cordero after Turnbow loaded 'em up. And in most situations of being down 1 run in the top of the 8th, I wouldn't do that. But, at this point, if he needs to get four outs for the last 5 games, so be it.

[sweepscc]

I'm just glad to know that pitching around Albert Pujols prevented the next 2 Brewers relievers from ending the inning.

 

(That, and it prevented the Brewers from scoring any more runs....when they were already behind.)

 

 

IMO, you might as well blame Ned for stranding 9 baserunners through 4 innings.

Agree with you BJ. If there's one guy you're going to give first base to with two outs it's Albert Pujols. If anybody needed to get ridiculed it's Melvin for putting together such a circus of a bullpen that can't keep from imploding. I actually feel bad for Ned, how would you like to go into the eighth inning choosing between freaking Seth McClung, Derrick Turnbow, Greg Aquino, or Matt Wise.

[bjkrautk]

I'm just glad to know that pitching around Albert Pujols prevented the next 2 Brewers relievers from ending the inning.

 

(That, and it prevented the Brewers from scoring any more runs....when they were already behind.)

 

 

IMO, you might as well blame Ned for stranding 9 baserunners through 4 innings.

I don't know how many times I personally have repeated this since last night, along with several other people, but here's another because it doesn't seem to be being read by the Yost supporters.

Nobody is excusing the bullpen from not doing their job, Turnbow not being able to throw a strike anywhere near the plate is inexcusable. Plenty of people have pointed out how many runners were left on and opportunities wasted. The point is the move put the team in a position to fail, and fail they did. There's accountability on both sides. You can be upset they failed, but you should also be upset they were put into a position to fail to make a worthless "statement".

If people want to defend Yost, that's your prerogative, but quit doing it by mislabeling the argument, its getting mighty frustrating.

 

How does pitching around Pujols (the move, be it with 1 pitch or 4) put the team in a position to fail? The decision was to not let the Cardinals' best hitter beat the Brewers in that situation. It's the same decision that every manager faces when dealing with elite hitters. Plus, with a .996 OPS, the difference between a free pass to first and a Pujols AB are essentially negligible. You make the other guys on the team beat you: Cardinals hitters behind Pujols got big hits that brought in runs. Corey Hart went 0-4 and stranded 7. (The one time Hart didn't end a scoring opportunity, Jenkins walked and Hall grounded out). That's the difference in the game.

 

Why didn't the Brewers "rally" around Fielder getting drilled earlier in the game, since that is what happens when you hit an opposing batter?

 

IMO, fans / writers / second-guessers can't blame Ned for leaving Turnbow in the game (since he had already been ejected), so this decision is as close as they can get. I apologize if this is somehow "mislabling the argument," but it's the the only form of arguing that I see. Tell me why it was such a poor decision not to pitch to Pujols; how did it set them up for failure, when it didn't even put a runner in scoring position?

[TauPentaRei]

That had nothing to do with the HBP, and everything to do with the bullpen not doing their job.

perhaps it's the difference between throwing a gas-soaked log onto a fire (intentional hit by pitch followed by standing on the top step of the dugout and yelling "payback is a 'female dog' "), and throwing a rain soaked twig onto a ashed over firepit (the calm, unintentional intentional walk).

 

the most astute thing that Mariotti said - and yes, he is a raving blowhard - is that the Cardinals reacted (appropriately) like the poked bear.

edit: if Pujols was just walked the atmosphere would have been COMPLETELY different

[sweepscc]

So the guys behind Pujols got so mad they saw that 96 mph fastball better?

[LS Brewer]

I don't know if anyone saw yesterday's Sun-Times where Greg Couch spent a significant amount of his column calling out Ned including these gems:

''Staying to the plan, staying focused, staying grounded,'' Yost said.

Whatever. Yost has cracked in this pennant race. He isn't even the team leader anymore, though he's still the guy putting in the wrong relievers and leaving them in too long.

and this one:

 

 

This is a race to see which will come first, Fielder winning it or Yost losing it.

and lastly:

 

 

Fielder is driven and focused. Yost sounds like a basket case, saying the pennant race is so fun that he can't sleep.

He has told his team that it's a waste to follow the Cubs on the scoreboard, but then he finds himself looking, then telling himself to stop, then looking again. He can't read the papers anymore, has stopped going to his usual coffee shop.

Sheesh.

It appears that the columnists of the NL Central are united at least in their disdain for Yost.

[lcbj68c]

I'm in the minority here, but I don't understand why so many fans are upset if Yost DID order the hit? It's Albert Pujols, with one out and a base open, in fact all three bases open. In hindsight, if only that run scores, then yeah, it sucked, but again that is hindsight. The fact is, Turnbow allowed a ton of runs to score and none of this makes any difference. If Turnbow can't pitch with runners on base, then Turnbow needs to change that line of thinking for himself. If that bloop doesn't fall and walks don't get issued, and runs don't score, we aren't talking about this. Furthermore, the Brewers weren't scoring another run all night anyhow, so what's the big freakin deal. They got an add-on run in the 9th solely because of defensive indiference allowing Rickie to go to 2nd base. The game was lost on not hitting with RISP early in the game and Turnbow losing all control late in the game, not because of a free pass to Pujols in the 8th.

[olliegjw]

That had nothing to do with the HBP, and everything to do with the bullpen not doing their job.

perhaps it's the difference between throwing a gas-soaked log onto a fire (intentional hit by pitch followed by standing on the top step of the dugout and yelling "payback is a 'female dog' "), and throwing a rain soaked twig onto a ashed over firepit (the calm, unintentional intentional walk).

 

the most astute thing that Mariotti said - and yes, he is a raving blowhard - is that the Cardinals reacted (appropriately) like the poked bear.

edit: if Pujols was just walked the atmosphere would have been COMPLETELY different

 

This is a ridiculous arguement. Maybe Yost should just punch every Brewer batter in the nose before they go up to bat. They will hit better when they are angry. Better yet, he can stand in the dugout with his arms hanging down, yelling "You have no marbles!!!" Then nobody would ever make an out.

[pretendastronaut]

I'm just glad to know that pitching around Albert Pujols prevented the next 2 Brewers relievers from ending the inning.

 

(That, and it prevented the Brewers from scoring any more runs....when they were already behind.)

 

 

IMO, you might as well blame Ned for stranding 9 baserunners through 4 innings.

I don't know how many times I personally have repeated this since last night, along with several other people, but here's another because it doesn't seem to be being read by the Yost supporters.

Nobody is excusing the bullpen from not doing their job, Turnbow not being able to throw a strike anywhere near the plate is inexcusable. Plenty of people have pointed out how many runners were left on and opportunities wasted. The point is the move put the team in a position to fail, and fail they did. There's accountability on both sides. You can be upset they failed, but you should also be upset they were put into a position to fail to make a worthless "statement".

If people want to defend Yost, that's your prerogative, but quit doing it by mislabeling the argument, its getting mighty frustrating.

How does pitching around Pujols (the move, be it with 1 pitch or 4) put the team in a position to fail? The decision was to not let the Cardinals' best hitter beat the Brewers in that situation. It's the same decision that every manager faces when dealing with elite hitters. Plus, with a .996 OPS, the difference between a free pass to first and a Pujols AB are essentially negligible. You make the other guys on the team beat you: Cardinals hitters behind Pujols got big hits that brought in runs. Corey Hart went 0-4 and stranded 7. (The one time Hart didn't end a scoring opportunity, Jenkins walked and Hall grounded out). That's the difference in the game.

 

Why didn't the Brewers "rally" around Fielder getting drilled earlier in the game, since that is what happens when you hit an opposing batter?

 

IMO, fans / writers / second-guessers can't blame Ned for leaving Turnbow in the game (since he had already been ejected), so this decision is as close as they can get. I apologize if this is somehow "mislabling the argument," but it's the the only form of arguing that I see. Tell me why it was such a poor decision not to pitch to Pujols; how did it set them up for failure, when it didn't even put a runner in scoring position?

 

bjkrautk, I posted my reply in the Yost Yay or Nay thread, since it probably would have gotten moved there regardless. You can see it here; http://forum.brewerfan.net/search.php?keywords=239746/t/Ned-Yost-Yay-or-Nay-thread.html

[SoCalBrewfan]

Would anyone seriously issue an intentional walk to Pujols with the bases empty and one out? The biggest risk at that point in the game is a big inning that puts the game out of reach...and with the heart of the lineup following him that's a good reason to go after Pujols. If he hits a solo HR, so be it. Pujols is as good as they come, but he makes outs more than half the time...and even Ned's little charts would tell him that Turnbow's done ok against Pujols in the past.

[TauPentaRei]

So the guys behind Pujols got so mad they saw that 96 mph fastball better?

 

you think Fielder hits better when he's mad?

 

I do.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

i have no problem with what happened last night...ned is a players manager....he stood up for his mvp first baseman prince fielder

[endaround]

Ned didn't stand up for his players, he was out to prove his own manhood.

[sheethead]

Ned could have stood up for his players by outmanaging LaRussa and winning the game.

[Diskono]

It's obvious that Ned ordered it, there was no other reason to have McClung pitching instead of Turnbow in that situation. However, blaming Ned for the loss is as silly as Cubs fans blaming Steve Bartman for their troubles. Putting Pujols on base intentionally is questionable, but certainly not a terrible decision in that situation. Turnbow struck out the next hitter, and he absolutely should have been able to get out of the inning with a runner on 1st and 2 outs. I think most everyone here understands that, but I can't imagine why anyone would think that it cost us the game.

 

What if Ned brought in Turnbow instead of McClung, then Turnbow walked Pujols before striking out Ludwick? The game situation is exactly the same, but now, all of a sudden, you can't use the "lol ned yost thinks retaliation is more important than winning" excuse!