Yost and McClung suspensions (Merged: I now feel a little better about McClung beaning Pujols)

[pebadger]

Ok, does the Nuremburg rule apply in MLB appeals? If a guy rolls on his manager does he get a pass? And if he does roll on his mamger, can MLB use that info against the manager? Or do they need the testimony of a third member of the conspiracy?

 

Honestly, I dont know how McClung could just swear, "I didn't mean it." and then everything would be OK. Have I missed a bunch of these overturned verdicts in the past? Or maybe MLB just really believed that nobody would be dumb enough to order a hit under the circumstances in play when Pujols was hit (though Brewer fans probably know better).

[hawing]

So, does this benefit or punish the Brewers? (I'm sorry, Seth. I know you work hard. I just could not resist.)

[endaround]

It maybe that a 3 game suspension held over past this season would nearly be a life time ban for McClung. If McClung doesn't make the Brewer 25 man next season, there is a good chance he gets only a minor league deal somewhere. And no team will bring up a guy who can't pitch for three days in an emergency situation.

[LouisEly]

There's no question Ned ordered the beaning, and I thought Ned deserved the harsher penalty. Anyone in McClung's position is going to do what his manager asks - Ned deserved the brunt of the discipline.

 

If Ned ordered the beaning, down by one run late in a game the last week of the season two games out in the playoff race, he should be fired. Yes, you need to protect your stars, however that is not the situation to do so. Pujols will be back next year, and so probably will LaRusa, so that's one you file in the back of your mind and get paybacks next season. I'm fine with it most of the time, but not down by one late in a game late in the season two games out of the playoffs. That would be absolutely stupid, and as much of a reason to justify firiny Yost as any.

[RobertR]

And, of course, there's also the fact that McClung really didn't cause any harm. He didn't hit Pujols particularly high and a fight didn't break out. And he was kicked out of the game immediately. What more really needed to be done?

 

Robert

[SeriesFinale]

Praise Be to Bud that Seth is now available for these crucial last two games.

 

All disgusted joking aside, it was fair--Ned deserved the harsher penalty I thought.

[Fatter than Joey]

Actually there is a question about that. If there wasn't any the suspension would have been upheld.

 

We don't know this though. I think the more likely scenario is that MLB felt that McClung was remorseful or he doesn't have a history of hitting players, -- something where MLB thought the punishment didn't fit the crime in this unique instance.

 

The bottom line is that LaRussa got the win, he outmanaged Yost.

[NYChez]

All year opposing pitchers were intentionally beaning Fielder, and the only response from the Brewers was typically a staredown from the batters box by Fielder and a staredown from the dugout by Rickie Weeks.

 

Now the message has been sent ... if you knock down one of our stars, then your star is going to receive a 101 MPH fastball in the chin.

 

The timing and ending result of the 8th inning against St. Louis was unfortunate, but at some point the message had to be sent.

 

My guess is that teams will be a little more reluctant to pitch Fielder inside.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I completely disagree. It was way more important for us to win the game and hitting Pujols in that situation did nothing but kill any chance we had to come back. The Cardinals had nothing to play for and Larussa knew Ned was dumb enough to seek revenge in a game that meant everything to us and nothing to them. This situation is just one of many examples showing that Ned doesnt have the mental capacity to run a team.

[stoops17]

I don't think it was the time or the place either. Tony baited the hook and Ned took the bait. And it cost us a chance at coming back in an important game.

[endaround]

Prince will be hit more now since the other teams know they can goad Yost into retaliating and getting tossed along with his pitcher.

[sgtcluels]

That was the dumbest move Yost could make. He's become a mockery of a manager by that move, and even Packer pre-game hosts on Sunday talked about it, that's how ridiculously stupid it was. The timing, especially after being warned was just plain short sighted.

 

In fact, I find it "classy" (For a lack of better terms) to be above petty retaliations like that, doing it on the field like Prince did against Capps is the better solution. Obviously if it's a trend we get hit all the time to go thug some people...

[naivin]

Didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't now. Pujols was going to end up on first in that siutation (at least) anyway, and Ned Yost was sending the message to Prince Felder and his teammates (not Tony Larussa), that as long as he continues to play the way he does, if anyone messes with him, no matter the situation, I got you covered. Prince Fielder is the franchise, and at present, the mealticket of everyone associated with that franchise. He is not to be touched. If he is, there will be consequences. Perhaps next time, the players will find a means address it on their own, so Ned won't have to.

[endaround]

Didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't now. Pujols was going to end up on first in that siutation (at least) anyway, and Ned Yost was sending the message to Prince Felder and his teammates (not Tony Larussa), that as long as he continues to play the way he does, if anyone messes with him, no matter the situation, I got you covered. Prince Fielder is the franchise, and at present, the mealticket of everyone associated with that franchise. He is not to be touched. If he is, there will be consequences. Perhaps next time, the players will find a means address it on their own, so Ned won't have to.

Yeah Prince should have charged the mound! Oh wait Prince did the smart thins and not get tossed for the rest of the season. And Pujols was most likely going to end up in the dugout in that situation after making an out.

 

[brewers4eric]

I still would have felt better if McClung would have beaned LaRussa while he stood in the visitors dugout. However, I'm not sure if the "shoulder flying open" defense would work in that case.

[Nearsighted Views]

I still would have felt better if McClung would have beaned LaRussa while he stood in the visitors dugout. However, I'm not sure if the "shoulder flying open" defense would work in that case.

You coulda got away with it if you just would have put Turnbow in first....couldn't help myself.

 

I will always think that was one of the dumbest moves I've every seen with that much on the line. We have a bullpen that's been struggling and then you bring in a guy KNOWN for struggling with runners on. Let's see. It's the biggest game in 15 years. Bean him? Are you kidding me?

[naivin]

Didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't now. Pujols was going to end up on first in that siutation (at least) anyway, and Ned Yost was sending the message to Prince Felder and his teammates (not Tony Larussa), that as long as he continues to play the way he does, if anyone messes with him, no matter the situation, I got you covered. Prince Fielder is the franchise, and at present, the mealticket of everyone associated with that franchise. He is not to be touched. If he is, there will be consequences. Perhaps next time, the players will find a means address it on their own, so Ned won't have to.

Yeah Prince should have charged the mound! Oh wait Prince did the smart thins and not get tossed for the rest of the season. And Pujols was most likely going to end up in the dugout in that situation after making an out.

 

I don't remeber suggesting Prince charge the monund, but I appreciate the words in my mouth. I have watched a few games in my life, and I'm pretty sure that when you get walked, you go the first base, not the dugout.

[Fatter than Joey]

I got you covered.

 

You mean -- "I got you covered until Sep." -- I am pretty sure right now, Prince would rather be playing in the playoffs than worrying about getting popped.

 

He is not to be touched. If he is, there will be consequences.

 

Like, I will throw at your batter, set the game up for you to win, and get some of my players suspended? -- The only message Yost sent, is that he does very dumb things.

 

Perhaps next time, the players will find a means address it on their own, so Ned won't have to.

 

This is what happened earlier this year in Prince v. Ump -- Prince got suspended.

 

Yost is a distraction from this team winning.

[DSFastball55]

Like, I will throw at your batter, set the game up for you to win, and get some of my players suspended? -- The only message Yost sent, is that he does very dumb things.

 

You could say that, but it's not that simple. If an opposing manager knows that we will retaliate if Prince is thrown at, he won't get thrown at. You do it once, and you probably won't have to do it again. If I were Yost and truly thought Prince was hit intentionally, I would not hesitate to throw at their best hitter at the next available opportunity. At some point you have to stand up for yourself rather than continue to take the high road and do nothing. It is a totally different situation if the person being hit is a guy like Prince rather than some average player. Prince pretty much IS the franchise, and he has to be defended. I fully support Yost's decision to throw at Pujols, and fully support him returning as manager.

[Fatter than Joey]

If an opposing manager knows that we will retaliate if Prince is thrown at, he won't get thrown at.

 

As long as Prince is hitting 50 jacks a season he will get popped -- nothing Ned could do would stop it.

[rluzinski]

If an opposing manager knows that we will retaliate if Prince is thrown at, he won't get thrown at. You do it once, and you probably won't have to do it again.

 

I'm sure Prince is done being beaned now.

[endaround]

Before: You hit Prince he glares at you and goes to first

 

Benefit: Back Prince off the plate

Cost: Giving free base

 

Now: You hit Prince and later Yost will get his pitcher to throw at you and then get the pitcher and himself thrown out

 

Benefit: Back Prince off, have a pitcher thrown out, reducing the Brewers bullpen for the game and in the future due to suspensions, Yost gets thrown out. You get free base.

Cost: Giving up free base.

[Nearsighted Views]

The whole throwing at guys is stupid, IMO, in the first place. But if you want to make the argument that it sends some message, fine. I can live with that. And if you want to do that crap in June, July, fine. BUT NOT IN SEPTEMBER WITH EVERYTHING ON THE LINE!

 

The Brewers somehow went the whole season without doing that. If you're mad, write it down and greet Pujols next year. But don't get baited in to a testosterone fest in the 8th inning of a one run game in a must win situation. Stupid. Short-sighted. Reactionary. No excuse.

[giffted1]

In the game on Saturday Vasgersian said that McClung's suspension was upheld because there was a hitch in his delivery that caused him to lose control. If that is true, Ned had nothing to do with Pujols getting hit. I think Bud should give Ned a "get out of suspension free card" for his unnecessary suspension.

[lukevan]

This could all be moot if McClung really just lost control of the pitch, which MLB seemed convinced was the case.