Other ill effects from Braves series: MVP and ROY? (Merged: Negro League Museum Awards)

[pretendastronaut]

After this weekend I'm pretty worried that Prince and Ryan are going to have a hard time winning these categories.

Almost anytime you hear the MVP discussed people think you should be on a playoff team. This obviously isn't necessary, but I think this year it may be a factor. Prince was tearing up September (17 game hitting streak, hitting over .300, 7 homers) and I thought was going to be a shoe-in, but he only had 1 hit in Atlanta, the series that will most likely kill us, and I have to wonder if that will come back to haunt his chances at MVP. It would seem a lot of people where on the fence about him being MVP, and if they were on the fence before, they may have decided this weekend.

As for Braun, I really thought he was a lock for ROY, but a lot of people are talking Tulowitzki right now, and similar to Prince's situation, the Rockies are making a playoff surge, while Braun is getting pulled and we're losing games. To say nothing of how Braun has struggled a bit down the stretch here. And amazingly I've heard commentary, even on our own telecasts, about how Tulowitzki has played all year while Braun has only been up since late May. I thought that was the impressive thing, to do what he's done while not being here for the first 2 months, but not it seems that may be working against him?

So where do you think their chances are? Do you think this weekend hurt their chances as much as I do? I still think Braun has a better shot at ROY than Prince does at MVP, but it would really be a shame if this weekend lost that much for the Crew.

[rluzinski]

Almost anytime you hear the MVP discussed people think you should be on a playoff team.

 

The fact that you are correct makes me not really care about who get's it in the first place. They should rename the award to, "The guy with a lot of RBIs on a playoff team" award.

[sbrylski]

90% for Braun

10% for Fielder

[Tbadder]

I don't want any Brewer to get any award. It'll only cost us more money in the end. And then there's the Pat Listach thing.

[Team Canada]

Fielder was never a shoe-in, and Braun should be a mortal lock, so I don't think there was any effect.

[Fatter than Joey]

Almost anytime you hear the MVP discussed people think you should be on a playoff team. This obviously isn't necessary, but I think this year it may be a factor.

 

The Brewers not making the playoffs won't help Yost, Braun or Fielder win awards.

 

I still think Braun has a better shot at ROY than Prince does at MVP, but it would really be a shame if this weekend lost that much for the Crew.

 

I think that the biggest problem Braun has, is that he gets pulled from games by Yost, moreso than the Brewers not making the playoffs. I guarantee that a lot of writers/voters will zoom in on that. Assuming the Brewers are no longer in playoff contention, if Yost keeps pulling Braun in "meaningless" games, that won't help Braun at all. Clearly, I think that Braun's defensive struggles should count against him, but to what degree is debatable.

 

As for Prince -- I think some reasonable/intelligent arguments can be made for players like Chipper/Ramirez/Rollins... If Prince ends up with 50 jacks, I can't imagine that he will not win the award.

[kgbaseball]

I think the Brewers have to win the division for Prince to get it. There's just too many better options if they don't.

 

I still think Braun's got it locked up.

[jlau20]

Prince is probably out of contention now, unless of course we somehow pull it out and make the playoffs, somehow being Prince basically winning every game for us from here on out.

 

Braun should still fine, IMO. I still think the fact that he played 2/3 of a season should help him more than not. To put up those sorts of numbers in your first (and most certainly only) callup to the Majors, you deserve ROY.

[Kurt]

Braun is a lock for ROY if there ever was one. While Tulowitzki is having a great rookie year, he doesn't even come close to braun. Look at their SLG as one example.

 

Braun: .627

Tulowitzki : .471

[Fatter than Joey]

While Tulowitzki is having a great rookie year, he doesn't even come close to braun. Look at their SLG as one example.

 

Look at their WARPS -- which takes their defensive contributions into account.

 

Braun 4.1

Tulo 7.9

 

Don't think some writers won't look at WARP, and the fact that Braun has to come out of games because of his bad fielding, and vote for Tulo.

 

I think Braun will win, but a very lucid and reasonable argument can be made for Tulo. I think it will be closer than people here are guessing.

[Ennder]

Anyone who is going to look at WARP will look at the home/road splits for Tulo and go with Braun still most likely.

 

I don't think Fielder has much of a shot unless we make a serious run at the division this last 7 games.

[WestCoastBrewer]

Fatter than Joey,

Take a look at Tulo's splits than come back with why Braun won't win ROY it's pretty simnple when you look at home and away and then compare both. But we also know writers will have their own opinion. The award over the years has been an offensive measurement.

 

I believe Prince will win the MVP award he has carried this team all year with some outstanding number whether we make play-offs or not.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I wonder if this will go back to the old Ted Williams/Joe Dimaggio argument. Ted always put up better numbers than Dimaggio, but played indifferent defense and was helped by Fenway park. Dimaggio's offensive numbers were hurt by Yankee stadium, but he played great defense and probably more importantly, NY always won. I believe Williams won the triple crown one year, but Dimaggio still ended up with the MVP award.

 

Frankly, I kind of hope that neither of them gets it and that the media makes a big deal out of their defense (or lack thereof) as a reason why they didn't vote for our guys. Perhaps that will get the entire team to focus a little bit more on the leather.

[Fatter than Joey]

Take a look at Tulo's splits than come back with why Braun won't win ROY

 

I clearly stated that I think Braun will win it. I just don't think it will be the landslide people expect. I think the splits are overstated, while he has certainly has hit better at home, I am not sure it is fair to conclude that his production is only because of Coors.

 

Look at Jenks last three years -- In 2005 -- He has a huge split differential in favor of road. -- In 2006 they are about the same, in 2007 huge split in favor of home. In the space of a year batters could face more bad pitchers on the road than they did in the previous years.

 

I recognize that CO lends an advantage -- but you can't just assume it is the only factor in his splits.

 

The award over the years has been an offensive measurement.

 

This is an unqualified statement. It's been a long time since a potential ROY has had such noticeably defense deficiencies like Braun has.

[PlayerHader]

Yeah, it is the players fault that we put together a team of offensive stars but defensive indifference. That's how the team's been built. I'm sure they're all working on it and will show improvement to various degrees, but in the end each guy was picked up for their stick.

[logan82]

Without looking it up, and thus opening myself to ridicule, I thought Coors has played pretty neutral since the humidor.

 

Nope I was wrong.

[falling off]

If I am not mistaken I believe 3 of the last 6 NL MVP's did not play in the post season. Ryan Howard last year and Bonds at least twice (01 and 04?). So I don't think post season involvement is that big of a neccesity when it comes to picking the MVP. Power numbers seem vastly more important to baseball writers.

[dlk9s]

The "requirement" that an MVP play for a playoff team is stupid. You know, because Fielder has a lot to do with the bullpen blowing games. Punishing (or at least not rewarding) a guy for the shortcomings of his team is lame.

 

And the whole "most valuable to their team" versus "best" player argument every year is tiresome. Look, it's an award for the best player. Chances are, if any of the candidates were not on their respective teams, those teams would not have done as well. Thus the "most valuable to their team" discussion is pointless.

[craigharmann]

If somehow Braun could get 100 RBIs (he's at 91), I think he's got ROY locked up. As of now, I'm pretty confident. I think Prince really helped his chances last night with that clutch (OK, maybe not clutch, but definitely a loud statement), big-time homer. He's got to play big down the stretch, and if the team can reel off a 5-2, or 6-1 homestand, there's a good chance we've got the MVP and ROY.

[jlau20]

If the Crew can manage to pull this out and make the playoffs, Prince will be playing a big part in that and I don't see how he couldn't get MVP.

[mothershipconnection]

I think Prince made a huge push with his 50th homer tonight. It's no more valuable than his 49th, but to voters, round numbers seem as mesmerizing as laser pointers are to cats.

[craigharmann]

I think being the youngest EVER to hit 50 homers has got to put Prince close to MVP status. And we're not done yet!

[lcbj68c]

Though I don't disagree with Prince regarding his comments towards his father, I'd have to say that they certainly can't help his stance with the writers. Writers love to reference players with their famous athlete fathers and continue to make it a story in every city Prince has went this summer. I think his perceived lack of respect for "where he came from" and "what was paved before him" may hurt him with some voters. Again, not that I disagree with Prince's actions, but I think it may play a role.

[flosses like fossas]

i don't think anyone posted this yet...everybody's buddy, buster olney, is flattering tulo on his espn blog over here...

 

is this a realistic conversation? how do you get away with mentioning braun in the same breath as ott, pujols and ted williams - which is to say nothing of fred lynn - and then say yeah, but about a guy who's had a season that would win him the ROY 4 out of 5 seasons? it is noteworthy that he leads nl shortstops in fielding percentage, but again the reviewer neglects the magnitude of his offensive production with consideration of his production at colorado v. on the road. if tulo played anywhere but colorado, he'd be lucky to put up the offensive numbers j.j. hardy has. would that make him a ROY candidate v. braun? no. period.

[homer]

Well it's at least worthy of discussion since Braun is so bad in the field. If you only looked at offensive number then Braun wins easily.