Bush and Vargas to the pen next year?

[JohnBriggs12]

Either Bush or Vargas should be the number 5 starter with the other guy in the pen as a 6th or 7th inning guy. I think either guy should pick up 2-4 mph on the heater if used for one or two innings. If they keep Capuano, he should be in the pen as the 2nd lefty but not a LOOGY. I'd keep King as my LOOGY instead of Shouse. Just a personal preference on my part.

 

Wise has to be sent packing. He should have no future in Milwaukee.

 

Cordero should be the one signing in the offseason.

[rluzinski]

I don't think Bush as the #6 guy is a bad idea but wouldn't it make more sense to give him a role that would keep him more stretched out? It's inevitable that someone in the rotation will get hurt, so Bush will get a half dozen starts at minimum as the #6 starting pitcher. I think Parra should have the long relief duties, with Bush being put in the 6th or 7th, to pitch 2-3 innings.

 

I agree that the bullpen in general is a mess, however. Coco and Linebrink are as good as gone and Turnbow isn't really good enough to be a closer or even really the a decent #2 option. Melvin may have to give up some marginal prospects to get the bullpen respectable.

[endaround]

Starters are worth more than relievers. If you have too many starters you trade them for relievers, not turn them into relievers. Vargas will make close to $5 million next year, below average for a starter but an amount only really good relievers see. The only real reason to keep Bush over a flotsam veteran as a #7 starter is if you expect to dump Suppan or lose Sheets in a year.

[brewmann04]

I agree Carlos needs to be in the Rotation next season and maybe since Bush has closing experience in College he might head to the Pen. Vargas is the Wild Card here he could again ne the 5th starter or be the long man or be used for trade bait.

[rluzinski]

I agree about Vargas; I'd get rid of him. And if Bush would be considered the #7 starter (behind Parra), I'd trade him as well, if Melvin can get something good in return. Otherwise, I'd have no problem keeping Bush as the #6 guy.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If they are going to add a 5th starter, he needs to be someone who can chew up innings. These 5 innings starts really took their toll on the bullpen. I think we have enough around for a 5th...Cappy/Parra/Bush/Vargas. All are good for the 5 spot. Hopefully Cappy will get it back together, he was the most effective when playing well. I'd start Parra & Bush in the pen...they'll likely be called upon at some point. I'd like to keep Vargas, but it may not be cost effective.

 

We have plenty of 4/5 starters...we need 1/2 starters and those are hard to come by. Hopefully Sheets is healthy and YoGo keeps it up. Villy could be a solid 3 and Soup really did pitch well down the stretch. We could use him to pick it up a little earlier next year.

 

As far as the bullpen, Linebrink is not worth the price most likely. I'd use the dough for CoCo. One LOOGY may be enough between Shouse and King. Wise is gone. I still think Turnbow can be effective if used properly...10-15 less appearances next year and he should be solid.

[sbrylski]

Wise has to be sent packing. He should have no future in Milwaukee.

He season overall has been a lot better than it seems. He also improved his K rate a bit while keeping everything else the same, though he's gotten a little luck with his HR/FB. I definately think he should be back.

[dadofandrew]

Wise might also sign for $1M, as he won't be in high demand after his current year. I have more of an issue with his inability to go consecutive days and more than an inning than I do his current campaign. Not many pitchers have a career of consistent, good seasons, there's always a bad year or two in there...in fact, that is when Doug has often swooped in and got guys.

[gregmag]

I agree with Al about Wise. I also think keeping Capuano around as our #5 is an easy call, given that (a) he's likely to bounce back at least somewhat, (b) he's a lefty, and © even if you just look at his raw numbers this year, he was a decent #5. Giving up on pitchers with value when their value is down strikes me as a bad idea.

 

I really like the Bush as closer notion. People have offered good reasons to think it might work, and I can't really see Linebrink as an obviously better risk to do the job well. If we don't resign Cordero -- which I don't think we should, given his age and likely price tag -- we need to find a closer. Best choice would be a trade, but working one out will be tough. We're a real contender now. We don't necessarily need a "proven closer" -- as in, a pricey guy whose best days are behind him -- but we do need a closer we can trust.

 

The rest of the pen seems pretty decent to me -- Tbow used properly as the 8th inning guy, Parra as the swing rotation-relief guy, Wise and Shouse, then some combination of Stetter/Bray/McClung/Spurling/Aquino. Maybe we can upgrade a spot through trade or free agency. The rotation is set with Sheets/Yo/Carlos/Suppan and, for me, Capuano. Vargas is trade bait; Cordero and Linebrink are draft pick bait. Closer is the issue.

 

Greg.

[falling off]

Just a quick question. Is Manny Parra stretched out enough to be a viable option to start for a whole year at the Major League level. I know due to injuries and what not, he hasnt ever pitched a ton of innings in a season before at any level. With all the concern over Gallardo's innings this year, I wonder why so many people want Parra in the rotation to begin next season.

[dadofandrew]

I have little doubt Doug has his eyes on a couple FA's relief guys even if they sign CoCo and Linebrink. He tried to add Gagne just a while back, so they will go after some, whether it be as FA's, non-tenders, or in trade.

[TooLiveBrew]

agreed, doa. There is simply no question that our bullpen is in need of upgrade(s). One priority I'd like to see in acquiring some more help there this offseason would be durability. I'm tired of guys with glass arms being counted upon for crucial situations. While TBow & Wise have definite value, I'd love to see someone with more of a rubber arm added - and could be successful the day after throwing merely one inning, as opposed to needing a full day off, a la the Joba Rules.

 

I know the list has been made already, but if our bullpen next year can consist of :

 

Parra / Bush / Vargas (perhaps two of these three - Vargas likely the odd man out)

Wise

Shouse

King / Stetter (I'd much prefer Ray)

Turnbow

McClung / Spurling

 

I think we'd be off to a good start, pending some off-season acquisitions. There are (as usual) quite a few RHRPs out there this offseason, and I hope the late-season FA scouting (and scouting in general) will pay off in this respect. Two more dependable righties would be a gigantic improvement from the 2007 'pen, though I know it's never set in stone that you can find those two guys - whether via FA or trade. I'd have to imagine that Vargas could net us at least one such player, but we'll just have to wait & see.

[bjkrautk]

One problem with the notion of Bush as a starter: he's at his worst in his first 15 pitches.

2004-06: .316 Avg .380 OBP .519 Slg .899 OPS against

2007: .363 Avg .400 OBP .549 Slg .949 OPS

 

Actually, in '07, he's been worse from pitches 76-120...but his performance history actually suggests that he's better in his second turn through the batting order.

 

Granted, he may be more able to "cut loose" coming out of the bullpen, knowing that he'll only have to pitch an inning.