Bush and Vargas to the pen next year?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Dave Bush and Claudio Vargas seem to be the odd men out in our rotation next year as it stands and with Manny Parra emerging as a possible 6th pitcher to be the long man and replace whoever is pitching like crap. I like both of these pitchers and they still could have value next year in our bullpen. I would be all for trading Bush or Vargas, but I'm not sure what kind of value you could get back for either since neither will excite many GM's. Maybe Vargas's good Win - Loss Record will coax some GM into giving up something good for him, but I kind of doubt that.

 

Since we seem to have very few reliable bullpen arms, I propose we put Bush and Vargas in the bullpen, and if they do well turn them into setup men and even possibly one could emerge as our closer next year with Cordero good as gone. How far out in left field does all of this sound?

[brewmann04]

I mentioned this in a previous post that Bush was a college Closer and maybe that could be a very viable option

[TooLiveBrew]

not far at all. I especially like the notion of trying Bush at closer. Retaining King for 2008 should be a priority, imho. Suddenly I feel a bit better about our 'pen possibilities for next year...

[Katuluu]

Vargas seems the most likely starting pitcher to be dealt this offseason, with perhaps Capuano or Parra a distant second. Bush really is an ideal 5th starter, but I think he'd do fine in relief as well if he is given a clear role and Ned actually sticks with it.

[Ennder]

You generally want high K's, low BB's and low HR's from your closer. Bush's K's are adequate at best as a starter, maybe that would go up a little as a RP. His BB's are great but he gives up a lot of extra base hits. I'm not sure he's the best match for the job though its worth a try of course.

 

Anyone is better than Turnbow being in the role.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

So are you guys confident in a pen that looks like this for 2008?

 

Parra - long man

Turnbow - 6th/7th inning

Bush - Closer

Vargas - 8th inning

King - loogy

Shouse - loogy

 

I'm not sure who will fill out the rest of the spots in the pen, but Spurling, McClung, Stetter, and Aquino will be candidates.

 

Am I forgetting anyone?

[Ennder]

Well if thats our pen heading into next year we are probably in trouble, heh.

 

We need at least 1 reliable known commodity in my opinion, especially since there isnt' a ton of upside in there.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yeah we will have to sign a FA or trade for someone that is a known commodity as a closer. Anyone know any good candidates out there as free agents?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

One thing I forgot to add is that Vargas could be a nice guy to have for the 8th inning. He had more velocity today than usual because he didn't have to save his arm to go 100 pitches. He can't pitch more than 6 innings as a starter anyways. The guy just has pen written all over him.

[TooLiveBrew]

retaining Linebrink seems to be fairly important, but that obviously depends on the price tag. Two draft picks would be very nice compensation if he isn't back. There look to be quite a few decent (or better) options in this year's FA crop of RHRPs, which is where it looks like we'd need to add.

[kgbaseball]

Linebrink just proves that there's such a high turnover rate in a bullpen. Why spend tons of money on a middle reliever when there's always diamonds in the rough for much cheaper? The Brewers shouldn't have to make a tough decision with Linebrink; just let him go, take the draft picks, and find someone who could produce like he did for much less.

[dadofandrew]

Vargas will be making in the $3.5-4.5M range next year, far too much for middle relief, unless he's a proven stud in that role. I agree with Kat he is most likely to be dealt. I see Bush as the #6 SP.

[logan82]

I honestly have to say I somewhat have a problen with keeping more than one LOOGY in the pen. It takes up a roster spot for one out per game. I would rather have a guy who can neutralize lefties, but still pitch pretty decently to righties. Wise used to fit that bill, but he has fallen way off the second half this year.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Vargas will be making in the $3.5-4.5M range next year

Isn't that around what Turnbow is making? Is he considered a stud? I don't see Vargas's salary that big of a deal at 4 million per year.

[DannoMac21]

The rotation for next year:

 

Sheets

Gallardo

Villanueva

Suppan

??????

 

I think we need to sign or make a deal for a reliable 5th starter.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I think we need to sign or make a deal for a reliable 5th starter.

We tried that last year and we ended up paying 42 million for a mediocre pitcher in Jeff Suppan.

[paul253]

I think we need to sign or make a deal for a reliable 5th starter.

 

I think we have to consider Parra as the 5th starter. If you can get the kind of cheap production we'd hopefully get from Villanueva, Gallardo and Parra, that'd be a huge asset and allow us to either keep Cordero or sign a good reliever. Our biggest problem all year has been the 'pen, and I don't want to cheap out and take our chances like we did this season. Shouse, Bush, Turnbow, Cordero (hopefully) King, and 2 others. We can trade Capuano and or Vargas for bullpen help if need be. I think a rotation of Sheets, Gallardo, Villaueva, Suppan, and Parra can be real solid.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I think we have to consider Parra as the 5th starter.

Yeah that situation is almost parallel to the beginning of this season when Villanueava was a strong candidate for the 5th starter. Who knows how the chips would have fallen had we gone with Villy instead of Vargas as our 5th starter. My guess is there wouldn't have been much difference in wins, but I'd be perfectly fine going with Parra as the 5th starter in 2008. It will be a matter of Yost and Melvin having enough confidence in the young man. Given Parra's age of 24 at the start of the season, I say let's do it.

[bretsky07]

I think we need to sign or make a deal for a reliable 5th starter.

 

No way. We have Parra/Cappy/Vargas/Bush to fill that one spot. Vargas was definitely adequate this year; Parra, if healthy will likely be better than that; Cappy will most likely at least partially bounce back, at least well enough to be a 5; and Bush just needs some consistency to be very good as a 4/5.

 

My guess is Cappy or Bush, with the other in the pen, Vargas traded, and Parra either in the pen or starting in AAA, just so we don't do next year what we did this year to Villanueva.

[DHonks]

One thing I like is that Vargas jumps it to 94 mph from the pen, whereas most starts he's at 89-91. Still, I hate that he is allergic to strikes.

 

Bush as a closer is a decent idea. He'd have the potential to have some 2 inning saves when necessary. I'd love to keep Cordero and Linebrink, but I'm not sure it'll happen.

[Ennder]

Capuano and Bush would both be close to the best #5 starters in the NL, there is no way we need another starter. What we need is a stronger bullpen.

[Jay Zahn]

Agreed on the bullpen. Vargas was above average for a fifth starter this year - take a look at what other teams have. One could say that the team was short on aces, but with Gallardo, possibly Villanueva, and however many starts Sheets can make next year that could be okay too. The bullpen, however, was among baseball's worst. It has to be improved substantially.

[Baldkin]

What about Villanueva as the closer next year?

He just seems to have that no-fear, big huevos attitude that could pull that off.

The teams big slide happened when he was gassed and couldn't throw two innings every other day anymore. He was that good in the 'pen.

[Ennder]

A starter is worth more than a RP and CV has a real shot at being a #3 type guy, I don't think they'll use him in the bullpen again.

[kgbaseball]

I hope not. He's done nothing but impress when given an opportunity to start.