Umpiring: Braves series, Bradley incident, etc. (Latest: game-ending call in NL wild card tiebreaker)

[Paul77]

I believe the Brewers argued last night because they felt that in Atlanta Bobby Cox influenced the umpiring the rest of the series by arguing balls and strikes on Friday night. This time they wanted to get the jump on LaRussa. I also think that with less than a week to go, why not? They've been nice guys all year and where did it get them? The calls continue to go against them.

You might be on to something here. I said pretty much the same thing to my girlfriend last night during the game (that umpires might give close calls to guys like Cox & LaRussa just to avoid confrontation). My only concern is that we'll get a complainers label. I can just as easily see umps continuing to call the close ones against us out of spite.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

'It used to be that you could, you know, have a conversation with a guy, and maybe you can get away with that with some of the older guys, but a lot of these younger guys...they'll go right after you, and I really don't understand it.'

 

That's an approximation of Mariners color commentator Mike Blowers during the bottom of the 1st inning of tonight's FSN (Northwest) Indians @ Mariners broadcast. It was in response to the question (from the p-b-p guy), "Do you ever remember an umpire baiting you?" during a discussion of some on-field verbal disagreement between a player & umpire.

 

I thought it was extremely relevant - both in that this is different divisons & league, and that Blowers is not much of a homer at all (from the few Mariners games I've watched since arriving in the Pac NW). Sounds like this is a league-wide problem, and definitely attributable to the bevy of younger umpires breaking into the ranks - and it is totally unacceptable.

[Fatter than Joey]

Umpire who got Bradley's ACL tore suspended

[Paul77]

Holding an umpire accountable for his actions? Unheard of. I just got off the phone with my brother and we were talking about how umps are never held accountable for anything. This is a pleasant surprise.

[dannyjnoonan]

One of my professors in law school used to tell this joke about umpires. It was meant to illustrate a point about judges and it's only funny in an old-man-joke kind of way. But I always liked it. Anyway, here it is:

 

There are three home plate umpires sitting at a bar and discussing how they make their calls. The first umpire says, "I calls 'em as I sees 'em." The second umpire says, "I calls 'em as they is." The Third umpire says, "They ain't nothin 'til I calls em."

[don1481]

Hmm... if Winters got suspended for the Bradley incident, maybe there's still hope that the ump that tossed Ned on Sunday will also get suspended...

[bjkrautk]

Hmm... if Winters got suspended for the Bradley incident, maybe there's still hope that the ump that tossed Ned on Sunday will also get suspended...

 

MLB asks for tape

 

Officials from Major League Baseball have requested the tape of Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter Tom Haudricourt's interview with umpire Ed Montague on Sunday in Atlanta following the ejection of Yost.

 

Montague responded to Haudricourt's questions about two calls in the seventh inning of the Brewers' game with the Braves with a profanity-laced outburst.

 

Meanwhile, Yost would like to see the issue of umpires' calls simply disappear.

 

Yost was ejected Sunday and Monday night, and catcher Damian Miller and hitting coach Jim Skaalen also were ejected Monday.

 

"Part of the game is the human element," Yost said. "Not only the players. but the umpires, too."

 

Source: Wisconsin State Journal

[jaybird2001wi]

NEW YORK -- Umpire Mike Winters was suspended by Major League Baseball for the remainder of the regular season on Wednesday because of his confrontation with San Diego Padres outfielder Milton Bradley last weekend.

The Padres claimed Winters baited Bradley, who has a history of losing his temper. Bradley tore a knee ligament when his manager spun him to the ground while trying to keep him from going after the umpire during Sunday's 7-3 loss to Colorado in San Diego.

 

Rest of the story continues here

 

 

 

 

Is it just me, or are umpires more and more of the ruckus rooters than the peacemakers these days? I just don't get it. This umpire needs to be suspended for some of next season too, even though it did involve Milton Bradley. Winters deliberately got into a tussle with Bradley knowing someone would protect him if Bradley got too close for comfort.

John Kruk of ESPN Baseball Tonight actually said something insightful after Bradley was declared out for the season, stating that Umpires need to be held more and more accountable. Also, Kruk pointed out that Umpires have been more loathsome since Sandy Alderson, the league disciplinarian, left to take a job with San Diego.

It makes you all wonder what these umpires are really doing, and I have been noticing that umpires are more and more trigger happy when it comes to ejecting managers and players this season. Isn't the game about the players, and not the umpires? Whatever happened to freedom of speech and why are the Umpires shutting managers up? If a manager has an issue, let him make his piece and continue with the game.

It is absolutely blasphemous, and the way the Umpires handled our series at Atlanta makes us all wonder what they are really doing. I think MLB needs to put the Umpires under a more intense microscope.

[homer]

MLB umps are pretty unprofessional in my opinion. They could learn a thing ot two from NFL referees.

[trwi7]

Also of note Winters was supposed to work the Brewers-Padres series starting tomorrow.

[don1481]

Based on these sorts of "interactions," would it be possible for MLB to consider locking out the umpires next season until they agree to a stricter conduct code? If players and coaches are held to one code and umps aren't subject to that (Winters' suspension notwithstanding), then something is not right. Checks and balances do need to be put into place.

[endaround]

The umps have a fairly detailed code of conduct, they just have no management control since Alderson left. Lets be homest, Selig isn't the greatest manger out there (see Prieb, Laurel).

[MJLiverock]

I don't mind the umps throwing a guy out but I don't like the confrontational nature a lot of umps seem to take. I know it is a hard job and having a guy scream in your face isn't easy to take but once the guy walks away there is no need to follow the guy or even walk towards him. It seems like umps used to just ignore grumbling from the dugout unless it was really agregious, now it seesm they take the mask off and get into shouting matches with the dugout at the first comment.

 

What would these guys do in the face of good old Earl Weaver melt down? I am waiting for the first ump to kick dirt or strike a manager.

[TheBrewer]

What tape does Tom Haudricourt have? Interview with Ed Montague? I havn't heard this interview. Does anyone have a link or transcript or something so I can read or watch it or listen to it etc?

[homer]

Apparently, Winters called Bradley "a ------- piece of ----". Based on video, it looked like it was completely unprovoked. Apparently, Todd Helton corroborated the story. FSN's Ken Rosenthal think Winters should get canned - if all this is true, I agree with him.

[clancyphile]

One has to re-think a few things. The umps gave the Braves a couple of extra outs in one inning in a game where they came back and beat the Crew. Plus, there was that ump who went after Prince, leading to the argument where Prince got tossed AND then got a suspension (IIRC, all of those games that the Crew lost).

 

That could be three or four games right there - lost not due to any fault of Yost or the Crew, but by bad umpiring.

 

I'm not saying umpire misconduct denied the Brewers the NL Central Division title... but one just has to wonder.

[dadofandrew]

I'm 100% sure the Brewers aren't getting the short end of calls for any particular reason, it's just because they umps are short-tempered and out of position this entire month.

 

Calling a tag play at home from behind the catcher? Throwing out Jenkins for looking at you twice instead of once? Those should be automatic demerits, but from what I understand, the umps have gone along unmanaged since Alderson left MLB. That needs to change, yesterday.

[don1481]

I am waiting for the first ump to kick dirt or strike a manager.

 

Again - you saw that when Ned got pushed not once, not twice, but three times by the ump that tossed him. Each time that the ump touched him, he had to reach out to do so. It's not like Prince's inadvertent contact. That was purely, blatantly intentional.

 

Lets be honest, Selig isn't the greatest manger out there (see Prieb, Laurel).

End - while I'm not a big supporter of Selig, many of the issues you saw with Laurel and Wendy running the team into the ground took place after Bud assumed both commish and owner duties. He had to be hands-off of the Brewers... well, as hands-off as he could make it appear. This isn't a Bud issue.

 

I still think a lock-out would be an appropriate way to send a message to the umpires... plus hiring a suitable Alderson replacement.

[TooLiveBrew]

Milwaukee's own Bruce Froemming umpired his final game on Sunday after 50 years in blue, including a record 37 consecutive years as a Major League ump. He called nearly 5,200 games.

"There's a little emotion," said Froemming, who turned 68 on Friday. "I grew up in this city and it's my last shot on the field. When County Stadium opened in 1953, I was there as a fan to cheer on the Braves, and then I got to umpire in County Stadium before they moved into this beautiful ballpark. I have a lot of good memories in Milwaukee."

Froemming is not exactly retiring. He accepted a job offer from Major League Baseball and will work with young umpires to "try to make a better product out of one that's already great."

 

Interesting tidbit from Adam McCalvy's "Notes" for 9/30. It sounds like MLB is very quietly admitting there have been widespread problems this year, and are turning to a guy who knows the right way to do the job. Kudos to Bud, et al, and best of luck to Bruce!

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, after tonight's game-deciding call at HP that was anything but decisive (or correct)...

 

http://weblife.org/humanure/images/shitflying.jpg

 

And I'd imagine we'll see at least one more blown call this postseason in another huge situation. Let's just hope MLB can get the wrinkles out by 2008, 'cause this is getting old.

 

EDIT: Don't want a strike... guess it's ok!

 

EDIT 2: Holy crap, I do not know why it took me so long to remember what team Sandy Alderson left his post as Umpire Commish to head...layers of drama!

[Oldcity]

Tonight was just terrible. It's a shame for such a great game to end on such a bad call. If I'm a Padres fan I feel sick.

[windiv07]

It was a great throw, catch, & effort at the plate by the Padres' D. Safe or out? You be the judge.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?&brand=null&videoId=3045730&n8pe6c=2

 

Watch the trail of Holliday's hand in the dirt and the position of Barrett's foot.

 

Note the umpire's movement (behind out of position to make the call). This reminds me so much of what happened to Mike Rivera last week it makes me want to puke.

 

Notice the track in the dirt of Holliday's left hand, where it starts and where it stops before the course of his slide is diverted by collision with Barrett's foot. This is hard evidence.

 

Barrett is partially to blame for this. He should have been in the unp's face immediately before the Rockies rushed th plate which would have given Buddy Black the opportunity to challenge the call. Not that it would have been reversed, but at this point, Black had nothing to lose and it would have put his own personal asterisk on the outcome of the game (underscoring for all the world what is the very valid reason for this thread) as well as what the umpires cost him a week ago (Milton Bradley). This is hugely serious stuff here and a major problem for MLB.

[TooLiveBrew]

I really am not in 100% agreement on the notion of "poor positioning," as McClellan actually had a clear sight-line to Holliday's left hand - which makes him missing the call even more egregious, imho. How any ump would not be looking directly at Holliday's left hand in that situation is something I am unable to comprehend.

[windiv07]

I can see your point there TLB (he can still see between Barrett's legs from where he is in this video). My point is that if I were trying to make that same call, I would have backed straight up and then moved up the 3rd base line so as not to put Barrett's legs and feet between my own eyes and the tag (as we have seen so often this year).

 

Notice how long it took for him to make the call? I think Barrett's foot was in the way of his view of Holliday's hand as it passed the plate, and that this could have caused that moment of indecision.

 

For some reason, this year has been frought with such errors of judgement and I cannot remember a year when the contentiousness of the umps has ever been so high. In fact, the mood has been downright confrontational from their direction. Yost called it 'laziness' in Atlanta. I think it goes beyond that.

[Fatter than Joey]

Notice how long it took for him to make the call?

 

My initial reaction was that the pause meant that the ump was going to make the correct call. There should have been no immediate call if the call was to be made correctly, as neither Holliday nor the plate had been tagged.