Tom Haudricourt getting a little snippy with fans

[jason21nl]

I'm kind of relieved to see that I'm not the only one with that kind of thinking.

 

The Yost debate is at the point where either you like Yost, don't like Yost, or think it doesn't really matter who's managing the team, and there's nothing Tom or anyone else can say that will change people's minds.

 

I would agree with you for the most part. However, the Nay camp gets getting bigger and bigger while the Yay camp is shrinking. I haven't read to many posts saying that they changed from nay to yay, but there is a ton the other way around. Including some big time Yost backers.

[Mr QL]

This guy doesn't actually get payed for this does he?

 

Irony is so yummy.

oh noes~! I misspelled a word! HOW IRONIC. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif

 

 

 

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, that's an Alanis Morissette -esque example of irony.

[brettac1]

Haudicourt is right to a degree, but I think the majority of Yost's critics here don't judge him on results, they judge him on process, which is the best way to judge a manager, IMO. If you judge on results alone, then you could twist in the wind about him (or the team in general) - which is the segment of fans that Haudricourt is ripping. He's generalizing things way too much, though.

 

There are times when he makes a terrible decision and it works out (splitting an inning between Spurling and Stetter in the Houston game referenced in the blog entry). If you judge on results you say "he must know something we don't", if you're looking at the process, it's "yeah, but he still put what are probably the two worst relievers on the team in the 9th inning of a tie game in the middle of a pennant race". There have been several times when he has made the correct decision and it hasn't worked, like the situation Haudricourt mentioned, and several times this season where his bullpen has let him down.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that he makes too many terrible decisions that don't work out, things like Ennder mentioned with hitting Mench against a RHP with the game on the line, or Jenkins vs. a LHP in the same situation, etc.

[tomwopat]

There are times when he makes a terrible decision and it works out (splitting an inning between Spurling and Stetter in the Houston game referenced in the blog entry). If you judge on results you say "he must know something we don't", if you're looking at the process, it's "yeah, but he still put what are probably the two worst relievers on the team in the 9th inning of a tie game in the middle of a pennant race". There have been several times when he has made the correct decision and it hasn't worked, like the situation Haudricourt mentioned, and several times this season where his bullpen has let him down.

I maintain that it is part of the job description of a manager to communicate with the fans, most often through the media. When there are press conferences with exchanges like "Is there anything wrong with Braun?" "No." after taking out Braun in a 1 run game, neither the media nor the manager are doing their job.

 

If Yost and/or Haudricourt want to make the argument that Yost is making decisions based on information we as the fans are not privy to, by all means, fill us in instead of leaving us in the dark and then lambasting us for the second guesses. But it seems fairly clear that the reason this isn't happening that even Yost knows there isn't a rational explanation to the majority of the questionable moves he has made.

 

Say what you will about big city media, but in this situation I'd prefer a more adversarial voice to echo the sentiments of what seems to be a fairly large portion of the fanbase, rather than pointless drivel like this which might as well be written by Yost himself.

 

edit: last paragraph

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Part of me gets where TH is coming from. He gets mountains of e-mails from emotional readers that are out for Ned's head. On the other hand, there has been some very well reasoned analysis of some of Ned's moves. That Baseball Prospectus article was right where a number of Brewer fans were on the Wednesday Astros game, whether they like Ned or not. He glossed over some very questionable moves on Wednesday and frankly didn't ask the tough questions that were on his reader's minds. Then he thinks we're all on Ned's bandwagon when his moves worked out last night, when he managed the game in a far different fashion. Then TH goes off on a blog basically calling all of the fans stupid. Absurd. I think Tom does a good job for the paper and has covered the Brewers well over the years, but this week was not his best.

[JohnBriggs12]

In Friday's game, Yost finally did some of the things many of us have criticized him for not doing in other games. He pinch run for Estrada for instance. Against the Pirates the previous week, he didn't pinch run for Miller late in a game and it cost him a run.

 

So I guess it's a positive that he learned from that mistake, but we don't need a manager learning on the job.

[Katuluu]

So I guess it's a positive that he learned from that mistake, but we don't need a manager learning on the job.

Summed up my feelings exactly. Yost was free to make errors and odd choices the past few years when their was nothing riding on the team's won loss record. That he's still making rookie mistakes during a pennant race is incredibly frustrating.

 

[bobskube]

TH is a butt-smoocher like most of the Milwaukee media. They are as soft as Dave Nelson's belly. They never challenge anyone for being in fear of alienating them and losing their opportunity to give softball-tossing interviews. It really makes makes me sick. I can see these morons in the pressbox smoking cigarettes and typing on their typewriters looking for a "scoop." Milwaukee's sports media is an embarrassment. They are even softer on the Packers unless it is about someone who talks a lot (Buckley, Mandarich) that makes themselves easy targets.

 

I'm not asking for Jay mariotti or Skip Bayless, but at least give me Mike Wilbon-like effort and call these guys out.

 

I am off my soapbox now.

[logan82]

I would say that the Brewers and tha Cubs are pretty close talent wise. The Cubs have a way better defense and thus pitching. Pinella has a bulpen where he has his Cordero type RP(Marmol) in a middle relief role where he can use him properly. Given all of that the Cubs are up by only 2.5 games. They would gain a game or more just on defense and maybe 2-3 games just on proper RP usage. I guess my question would be, what has Pinella done to make this a close race? Given a perfect manager we would be in first, but give that same perfect manager to every team and I think things would all be about where they are now. Given a 5 game swing a year betwen an optimal lineup and the absolute worst possible lineup(2 games every 5 years between a traditional lineup and optimal lineup), pinch hitting would have an almost negligible effect.

[TooLiveBrew]

And Yost does not believe in using his closer on the road in tied games. If you don't agree with him, again, that's your prerogative. But at least he has been consistent with that approach all year.

 

Yes, the fact that he's consistently incorrect should somehow make people feel better.

 

The point I was trying to make is that he always tries to use the Linebrink-Turnbow-Cordero relief formula in close games, if those three pitchers are available and don't need a night off.

 

Hooray set-in-stone strategy! Hey - isn't "set-in-stone strategy" kind of an oxymoron? Shouldn't a strategy be predicated by situation?

 

We're not trying to rub it in here or be an apologist for Yost. The point is this: when the players do their job, the manager is a genius. When they don't do their job, the manager is a dolt.

For some reason, critics never hold the players accountable. Just the manager. I've never understood it and I never will.

Way to really understand the facts. And be able to separate the argument from your lack of understanding the argument. Apparently I'm not actually a Yost "critic," since I don't meet the criteria - can anyone help me out as to what I really am? I'm worried about an indentity crisis.

[homer]

Summed up my feelings exactly. Yost was free to make errors and odd choices the past few years when their was nothing riding on the team's won loss record. That he's still making rookie mistakes during a pennant race is incredibly frustrating.

I think a lot of his recent moves are due to the expanded roster. If he had Stocker, Rivera, Gwynn, Nix, Rottino all year he would have pinch run/hit much more often. Yost has always been reticent to pinch run for a catcher.

[Oldcity]

Here's an example to prove that we aren't just using hindsight.

 

Read Saturday's IGT. People were ripping Yost for using Spurling over Cordero. Spurling got through the inning. I still think it was the wrong move, and I stand by that even though it ended up working out for Ned.

 

I went crazy when Yost left Mench in to hit against Dempster in the last Cubs game. Mench grounded out weakly on the first pitch. I would have thought it was the wrong decision to leave Mench in even if he ripped a double down the line.

 

Bottom line is a manager needs to put his team in the best situation to win as often as possible. Yost just blows those opportunities far too often.

[1992casey]

Back to the subject that started this thread, rather than the fans, I think Mark Belling was Tom's real target.

Somebody might want to pass along that baseball fact of life to Mark Belling, who apparently thinks those of us covering the team don't ask Yost the tough questions. And gosh knows baseball experts like him are never wrong. Who am I to quibble with astute baseball minds such as his? I see him in the clubhouse all the time.

[Team Canada]

If they're asking Yost the tough questions, how come we never read them? Or even more importantly, if they ask something like "why wasn't Cordero in there?" and Ned gives some generic canned response, why don't they follow up with "wouldn't you want Cordero to face the best hitters?"

 

I'm not buying it.

[Fatter than Joey]

Who am I to quibble with astute baseball minds such as his?

 

Someone needs to make this into a poster for Haudricourts cubicle

[1992casey]

See these threads:

 

Tom Haudricourt: back at it

 

Nobody has ever said they miss the days of Jerry Royster