Tony LaRussa

[Big Reed]

I don't believe threads always need sources or links. Sometimes threads are speculation or beliefs of the poster. it's nice to see a link of a contoversial quote. but i don't think the quote attributed to larussa in the first post is really that controversial that it requires a link. I once wasted 16 hours trying to find a link where Sheffield said he purposely made fielding errors in order to force the brewers to trade him. At the end of those 16 hours, all I could find was a reference to a radio interview Sheffield had. So, if you don't believe the original poster, a link probably won't change your mind. ARod's wife didn't really wear a profanity laced tshirt, but everybody used a link to the NY Daily news story that said she did. and that story was a blatant lie as the picture blurred out the profanity but said it was one. and no other reputable newspaper carried that story other than maybe the Globe. Links are not always truthful.

 

on a related note, I heard on KMOX radio (St louis radio station ) as part of Mike Shannon's after game show this week after a cub game that it may be time for Larussa to move on. This was pure speculation on Shannon's part. he backed up his speculation by saying that certain cardinals players are no longer responding to Larussa's directions. Puhols was still very mad Larussa didn't use him to pinch hit in the all star game. Larussa's DUI was brought up. Mike Shannon mentioned several other factors that might lead to Larussa leaving the Cardinals after this year. But his main points were that larussa has basically alienated himself from the players of this year's team, and they are no longer responding to his demands, and it might just be time to move on. he didn't say the Cards would fire larussa, but rather, larussa would find a way out of his contract and move on to bigger and better things.

 

As for larussa becoming the next brewers' manager. all I can say is take a look at his current contract. if larussa left the Cardinals, he's not going to take a cut in pay. i don't see any way the brewers would or ccould be willing to pay the salary that larussa would command. The brewers are just not the type of team to give $5 million to a manager no matter how good he is. I would agree that larussa would have probably won a few more games for us this year if he was our coach. however , we have Yost. and because we have Yost at a relatively low cost, the brewers have been able to apply money to other areas. One must realize if the brewers were to hire some name coach and pay him $5 million, that money has to come from some other area such as not paying as much bonuses to draft picks, or not resigning Sheets.

 

it would great to have larussa as our manager. but we must realize there are trade-offs. and I doubt if brewerfans would like the monitary trade-offs that would be required. Yost is not the greatest coach in the world. But he's a pretty good coach for the money he is paid.

[Patrick425]

I don't believe threads always need sources or links. Sometimes threads are speculation or beliefs of the poster.

So, if I start a thread that states that Prince Fielder is on steroids because it's something that I speculate or I believe, that's ok? The original poster stated it as coming from a LaRussa speach. What speech?

 

i don't think the quote attributed to larussa in the first post is really that controversial that it requires a link

I think the commissioner of MLB would beg to differ. Heck, Houston felt it neccesary to explain their pitching line-up to the commisioner and the Cubs. This is a manager that is suggesting they will lose some games on purpose. Ever hear of the Black Sox?

 

edit: by the way, I'm not suggesting that Bud Selig cares what is posted here. I'm saying that I think he would probably pursue disiplinary action had LaRussa really made that statement.

[1992casey]

I don't believe threads always need sources or links. Sometimes threads are speculation or beliefs of the poster. it's nice to see a link of a contoversial quote. but i don't think the quote attributed to larussa in the first post is really that controversial that it requires a link.

Big Reed, the issue at hand is the lead poster erroneously assumed this 'speech' was common knowledge. It turns out that it isn't common knowledge and nobody has been able to find what seems to have been said.

 

It was clear that the speculation part of the lead post was speculation. Also, there's been lots of LaRussa speculation on the news and around the web.

 

I've PMed sheetswannabe to make sure he doesn't forget about us and make sure he stops by this thread on his next visit to clarify the content of his message.

[jeffy]

FWIW, this comment is a topic on cubs board:

 

Tony LaRussa

 

and Cardinals:

 

TLR comes unglued...cubs fans snicker

 

Sounds like it was meant as joke.

 

 

(added text to long links --1992)

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't believe LaRussa would have won any more games with this team than Ned has.

Last year TLR had a veteran team with a normal amount of injuries in a weak division and lead them to 83 wins. I know he also managed that team to a WS title but if you give him credit for that then he also should get the blame for all the times he failed to get a better team the title. Do we really want someone who can't win a WS with a 100 team?http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

Ned this year has a very young team with three rookies playing vital roles, in a better division (admmittedly very little better), with a normal amount of injuries and has them on pace for 84 wins.

This year LaRussa has lost his Ace and had a few injuries to some key players. What has he done with that so far? Managed them to 10 games below .500, 8 games off the pace. Last year Ned lost his ace and 3/4 of his infield to injury. What did Ned do with his team? At this point the team was 68-82 and ended up 75-87, 8 1/2 games back.

What's the differance?

Given about as similar of circumstances as one could presume to get they both did pretty much the same if you ask me.

 

LaRussa has a better history than Ned but that can be expected given the circumstances of each managers history (or lack thereof). LaRussa has a better winnning % but also has more losing seasons if I'm not mistaken. Neither of them managed to win when they didn't have enough talent. The only differance I would argue is it's harder to win with a young team going through a pennant race for the first time than it is for a veteran one with a history of going through a pennant race.

Maybe LaRussa is a better strategist maybe not. Ned seems to be a better manager of people than LaRussa IMO. No one gets to see how many games in the win column that matters but I'd be willing to bet most GM's are more interested in that as a managerial quality than whether he fails to pinch hits for someone appropriately once in a while.

[Patrick425]

Sounds like it was meant as joke.

That would make more sense. If it was done in front of Cards season ticket holders at a luncheon or something and clearly meant as a joke, then I can understand why there has been no news about it. Although, not sure if it would be wise for a manager to even joke about something like that. Things have a tendancy to get taken out of context in this day and age.

[Fatter than Joey]

This year LaRussa has lost his Ace and had a few injuries to some key players.

 

He lost his top 2 starters and had a player die. -- It's been a tough year for them

[Ennder]

The Cardinals have about three useful players on the entire team right now outside of the bullpen. Pujols, Wainwright and Ankiel (Duncan is hurt). Pretty much the rest of that team outside of the bullpen would ride the bench if the Brewers and Cardinals merged teams.

 

That is a terrible team that should be in last place in this division.

[brettac1]

It's an absolute credit for LaRussa to be able to keep that team in contention as long as he did - a baseball version of a miracle. He is consistently able to squeeze productivity out of players that you would least expect him to, due to platooning and putting them in a position to succeed. His rotation had guys like Braden Looper in it, for cripes sakes. If they had finished .500 he'd have my vote for manager of the year. He still has it for manager of the generation.

[logan82]

He didn't have this bad of a roster even a month ago and the NL Central isn't exactly a very tough division. Almost half the teams in the NL have better records than our division leader.

[logan82]

Stop second guessing! Maybe it was a "gut" feeling. Whatever it was, I think we should just assume he had a good reason for it, and not question it any further. There's so much that goes on in a major league dugout, you couldn't possibly understand enough to formulate a valid opinion on the subject. Everybody makes mistakes. How do you know that a different manager wouldn't do the same stupid things over and over and over and over and over and over and over, just like Ned?

 

It's easy to question the decison now that it didn't work out, but what if Bush had hit a homerun? What if Braun's defensive replacement made an awesome defensive play and then hit the game-winning homerun?? You'd be hailing Ned a genius. Instead, you're questioning his moves because you HATE him. Stop asking questions. Support Ned, or get off the Brewer bandwagon...

Why do you make it out that everybody who likes Yost thinks those who don't should go cheer for another team?

[Ennder]

Last year's Cardinals team isnt' as good as this years Brewer's team. Its not even close. Yost has cost us 3 games or so and LaRussa gained them 3 games or so sadly enough.

[adamb100]

Just tell me this, would Tony LaRussa have pitched to Pence in that situation last night?

[JohnBriggs12]

The Cardinals talent level is below the entire division and has been for most of the year. That LaRussa has them ahead of any team is remarkable.

 

If Yost were managing this Cardinal team, they would lose 100 games.

[Fatter than Joey]

It's an absolute credit for LaRussa to be able to keep that team in contention as long as he did - a baseball version of a miracle.

 

Agreed 100% -- Plus I think that it is quickly forgotten they had a player die as well.

[Thurston Fluff]

Agreed 100% -- Plus I think that it is quickly forgotten they had a player die as well.

They had a more prominant player die and didn't have the probelms they had this year. Not to make light of the situation but that isn't why they tanked so badly this year. In some cases it even pulls a team closer together like it did when Kyle died. I'd also think it's fair to point out that LaRussa's own issues with drinking and driving, while not causing the accident, didn't exactly send a clear message about how bad an idea it was.

The Cardinals have about three useful players on the entire team right now outside of the bullpen. Pujols, Wainwright and Ankiel (Duncan is hurt). Pretty much the rest of that team outside of the bullpen would ride the bench if the Brewers and Cardinals merged teams.

Looper 12-10 4.55ERA
Pinero 5-3 4.50ERA
Wellemeyr 3-2 3.59ERA
Molina .722 OPS good defensive catcher
Eckstien- .713 OPS
Miles- .697 low but look at Weeks struggles for comparison
Ryan .749 as a bench player
Speizio .715 form the bench
Rolen .729 in 392 abs with 100% better defense than any player we can trot out there.

That's right a bunch of crap compared to what we had to trot out there last year.

It's an absolute credit for LaRussa to be able to keep that team in contention as long as he did - a baseball version of a miracle.

This stikes me as odd given Ned did the exact same thing last year with more injuries than LaRussa has this year yet no one seemed to think the Brewers where in it under virtually the same circumstances.

Just tell me this, would Tony LaRussa have pitched to Pence in that situation last night?

Tell me this. Have you seen LaRussa every day like you do Ned to know whether he would have or not? Asking loaded questions you think you know the answer to doesn't make a point one way or the other. It owld be just as correct for me to say yes he would have as it is for you to say no he wouldn't. LaRussa has and will continue to make mistakes like every manager does. To take one instance and use it in a hypothetical with no evidence what so ever to back your point does nothing for your arguement

His rotation had guys like Braden Looper in it, for cripes sakes.

Ours has exactly what in it that makes you think Looper and his 4.55 ERA wouldn't be in our rotation? Vargas, Bush, Cappy? Which one of those guys would you keep over Looper? When you compare what Ned had to work with last year to what LaRussa has this year in the pitching department it isn't even close. Looper is as good or better this year than Vargus, Bush, Ohka, Hendrickson, Eveland, or Jackson were last year.

He lost his top 2 starters and had a player die. -- It's been a tough year for them

You weren't so forgiving of Ned last year when he had as many if not more injuries. Ned lost two starter including his ace for most of the year and 3/4 of his infield.

It's real easy to say someone would have done more when it impossible to prove otherwise but I've yet to see any excuse that people make for LaRussa's poor team this year give Ned the same pass for the exact same problems last year. To me that says a lot more about the accuser than it does the accused. If you start out with the premise that Ned sucks it's easy to find annecdotal reasons to feel that way. That doesn't make it really true. I hope I've pointed out merely saying they only have three players of value, even though I think it's fairly obviously false or they had a lot of injuries while ignoring the Brewers had more or that they had such a horrible pitcher as Bradon Looper pitching for them isn't being very honest with yourself.
If you don't like Ned fine. If you like LaRussa fine. I'm not going to change your mind and your opinion is every bit as valid as mine. Just be more honest with yourself as to the reasons why. It's ok as a fan to say I just don't like him. That's exactly how I feel about LaRussa. IMO he's an arrogant condecending jerk. At least I can admit that, even though I don't like LaRussa, he would have been just as capable of winning with this Brewers team as Ned...Just not more capable. As the last two years have shown.

[Fatter than Joey]

You weren't so forgiving of Ned last year when he had as many if not more injuries.

 

I have been watching LaRussa since 1983. I think he is a great manager. I think Ned Yost is a sea cucumber.

 

I understand why the Brewers didn't make the playoffs in 2006 (injuries) -- I still think Yost was a bad manager though.

 

The Cardinals success last year and the fact that they aren't a 100 loss team this year in a large part can be attributed to LaRussa.

 

I guess it can be summed up as I think LaRussa in 2007 has done a good job with a lot of adversity, and Ned Yost did a bad job with a lot of adversity in 2006.

 

A lot of posters seem intent equating "being a bad manager" with "blame". I don't "blame" Ned for 2006, I "blame" injuries, but I don't think he did a good job in 2006.

[logan82]

I agree that LaRussa is a condecending jerk.

Just tell me this, would Tony LaRussa have pitched to Pence in that situation last night?

Probably. LaRussa issues fewer IBB than any other manager in all of baseball. Yost is 2nd.

 

 

(offset quote --1992)

[Thurston Fluff]

This board would be very boring without the ying to my yang, FTJ.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif As usual I don't agree but appreciate. I've watched LaRussa about as long as you have. For what ever reason, probably very similar ones you have with Yost, I don't like him. I admit mine is more about my dislike for his demeanor than his production but when similar results happen with similar circumstances I have to admit they are similar in abilities.

 

I guess it can be summed up as I think LaRussa in 2007 has done a good job with a lot of adversity, and Ned Yost did a bad job with a lot of adversity in 2006.

 

If they each had adversity and they end up with pretty close to the same record what does that tell you? It appears to me it has more to do with your dislike of one and like of the other than it does with actual abilties. I'm fine with that.

 

The Cardinals success last year and the fact that they aren't a 100 loss team this year in a large part can be attributed to LaRussa.

 

If Ned does the same thing with similar circumstances why attribute the success to one and not the other? The only real differnace is the division is tougher this year. LaRussa didn't have a single team over .500 in the division last year. If the Brewers played in last year's division they would have the division all but wrapped up by now.

[TooLiveBrew]

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/PU/Time2Machine.jpg

 

If only it could be done http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/frown.gif

 

 

[logan82]

LaRussa didn't have a single team over .500 in the division last year. If the Brewers played in last year's division they would have the division all but wrapped up by now.

How about 2 years ago when the Brewers overacheived and got to .500?

[1992casey]

Moved from another thread:

brewmann04 wrote:

---

When can we Expect a Statement from Mark A

[brewmann04]

Ajay you ever think that happen

[jackalope02ca]

LaRussa should have been canned the second he was charged with impaired driving in spring training. In today's world that is simply unacceptable. Top that off with everything else that has happened in St. Louis this year he shouldn't get a job next year. I'm sure someone will hire him but his days of winning are over. Who would have any respect for him? Once you lose the players respect your done.

[brettac1]

If he hits the open market, which he might, he will be the most in demand manager in recent years, for good reason. It would possibly the best thing that has ever happened to the Brewers if they were able to get him to manage them.