Let's Give Rickie Weeks some Props (merged with SoCal Brew Crew Fan's props thread)

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

but honestly I'm not looking at Weeks as a cornerstone for this franchise

I still do. His talent will probably make him the best 2B in Brewer history even though that's not saying much.

[TooLiveBrew]

so, what do you think of Molitor?

[DougJones43]

You guys were so down on Rickie Weeks this year, but we all knew he'd snap out of it...About 80% of BF.Net. If you don't believe me, go check all the Rickie Weeks threads in the past 3 months.

 

What the heck is your point? People were disappointed when he was playing terrible for 3/4 of the season. Most of those people figured he'd get better, but were still disappointed that he was playing so poorly. Then, like we all knew (your words), he snapped out of it. He's been playing better lately, but that doesn't make being disappointed or unsatisfied with his earlier play wrong. He sucked. I fail to see how him hitting well now proves everybody who pointed out his prior suckiness "wrong."

 

Of the 80% you mentioned, find me a single post that claims Weeks was alway going to suck and never get any better. You probably won't find one, so I don't understand the "I told you so" nature of your post.

[sbrylski]

I have always said I think his power potential has been knocked down a notch after his wrist and thumb problems, but his potential used to be 30-40 homers. I think when he was drafted many were looking for a very high batting average, but I think he'll always be a higher K guy based on his entire professional career to date. But even so, a .280+ BA with 20-30 HR and some big time plate discipline starting to develop all coming together would create one super second baseman, without even mentioning 30 steals.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I just think to say something like "80% of BF.net felt Rickie Weeks could never again play well" is wildly out of line. Just mo

Uh, you are putting words in my mouth. I said 80% of BF.net was down on him this year. I never said he would never play well again. Sheesh. Please don't do that. Was Molitor's primary position 2B??? If I remember correctly Jim Gantner played most of his time at 2B during Molitor's years. Hmmmm.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

What the heck is your point?

My point is that Rickie Weeks is going to be a great player for this franchise and that his wrist was the reason for his bad 3/4 season. I'm not trying to call out Brewerfan.net. I'm just giving Rickie some props for playing great in August and September.

[DHarris34Phan]

"I said 80% of BF.net was down on him this year."

 

 

 

--And is there a problem with being down on a guy that was hitting .200??

[DougJones43]

I said 80% of BF.net was down on him this year.

 

 

Were people not supposed to be down on him? Because he eventually started hitting now in September, are people supposed to be retro-actively satisfied with the .685 OPS he posted from April through Mid-August? Again, I fail to see the point of your thread. It seems like you are telling people they were wrong to ever be down on him, and I don't see how you have a leg to stand on with that argument. Rickie flat out stunk, the stats prove it, and people who were disappointed were more than justified.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just think to say something like "80% of BF.net felt Rickie Weeks could never again play well" is wildly out of line. Just mo

Uh, you are putting words in my mouth. I said 80% of BF.net was down on him this year. I never said he would never play well again. Sheesh. Please don't do that. Was Molitor's primary position 2B??? If I remember correctly Jim Gantner played most of his time at 2B during Molitor's years. Hmmmm.

Ok, I apologize. Didn't mean to do that. To claim that 80% of BF.net was down on Weeks is also an overstatement. And to be fair, why shouldn't they have been? He was playing incredibly poorly, and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that. You are making broad-sweeping claims about how we haven't supported Weeks, when I personally was one that stuck up for him the entirety of his struggles. You make a broad-sweeping claim that he will be the greatest (or has the chance to) 2B ever, and then when I point out a player with 200 games played at 2B for our franchise, he's dismissed because he didn't play there enough.

If I remember correctly, Molly was moved since Gumby was a better defensive 2B. Don't you agree that it's fair to assume that if a significantly more consistent fielder becomes available to play 2B while Rickie is here, he might get shifted to LF? Would his games played at 2B then not count?

 

[DougJones43]

My point is that Rickie Weeks is going to be a great player for this franchise and that his wrist was the reason for his bad 3/4 season.

 

If his wrist was causing him to play that badly for that long, then he probably should have been on the DL to start the year. I think the theory that he fell into some bad habits while hurt probably has more merit. His defense still needs lots of improvement too. I still hold out hope that he will be a very good player someday, but it's going to take more than two weeks of good hitting to convince me he is "there."

 

 

I'm not trying to call out Brewerfan.net.

You certainly could have fooled me.

[Fatter than Joey]

My point is that Rickie Weeks is going to be a great player for this franchise and that his wrist was the reason for his bad 3/4 season.

 

If you say so -- he is a horrible 2b. I think he could be serviceable, but he has a long way to go before he is even solid, let alone great.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'm not trying to call out Brewerfan.net.

You certainly could have fooled me.

Well that wasn't my intentions. I just remember a lot of people saying Weeks was a bust about 2 months ago and people were pretty down on him. Sending him to AAA was a great move to get him some AB's and I think we are going to see the good Rickie Weeks from here on out if he can stay healthy. I think he's going to be the leadoff man of the future for the Brewers even though we'd like to think of his as a future #3 hitter. But Mr. Braun might have something to say about that.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think if you told Carrottop that he had to give Weeks props, he probably would have assumed you meant an obscenely oversized glove, and a bat without a hole in it.

[bobskube]

I think a lot of people on here get offended a bit by the criticism of Rickie because it has been a bit harsh at times.

 

The Brewers people should vent their frustration at this year should be Estrada, TBlow, and of course...Bill Hall. That is "The Great BFan.net Superstar," Bill Hall. Mr. Overrated himself.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why a dig at Hall? I don't mind players being criticized, but please tell us why. Just a lower HR total? Or his defensive struggles in playing CF (by far the toughest OF spot) for the first time in his career? I know he hasn't put up the monster year we'd all hoped for from him, but a large part of why his HR totals are down is just literally due to his missing time because of injury.

 

He's still got some impressive 'secondary' stats, and I think it'd be a stretch (barring more injury woes) to think that Hall won't eclipse 20-25 HR in 2008, and probably each season for the remainder of his contract. That's pretty good for the position of CF, and in that vein, I think it's also reasonable to expect that his routes & fielding will only be improved next year, as well. I'm not saying he hasn't been struggling this year, but -like Weeks- his numbers when struggling are still not that bad. If Hall had dipped across the board, I'd be very worried about his future. Good thing for us that he hasn't.

[wallus]

"If you say so -- he is a horrible 2b. I think he could be serviceable, but he has a long way to go before he is even solid, let alone great."

 

Wow what a utterly wrong statement. Has he not lived up to our lofty expectations? No but to say he is horrible disregards stats. Rickie does not have a great batting average but he does have an excellent obp which is important for a leadoff hitter. His OPS is approaching 800 which is not "horrible" as you say. Players who have worse stats than Rickie currently starting at 2nd in MLB: Luis Castillo, Marcus Giles, Adam Kennedy, Ronnie Belliard, Kaz Matsui etc (that's just a few I could think of in the National League). To be a horrible player you would think that you would be at the bottom when it comes to stats for your position don't you?

[DougJones43]

Why a dig at Hall? I don't mind players being criticized, but please tell us why. Just a lower HR total?

Actually, Hall's OPS this year is lower than Weeks'. Hall has a .758 OPS, Weeks has a .777 OPS. So, that poster has a point. Hall deserves as much wrath for this season's performance as Weeks. Personally, I've cut Hall some slack because he was so good the last two seasons. Up until two weeks ago, Rickie Weeks hadn't really done anything in his major league career but get hurt and make errors. For what Hall contributed the past two seasons, I'm more willing to put up with his down period.

 

 

If Hall had dipped across the board, I'd be very worried about his future. Good thing for us that he hasn't.

How do you figure? Below is a comparison of 2006 Hall and 2007 Hall. Seems like his number have dipped big-time, all the way across the board. Not just HR totals.

 <font size="4"> [u]AVG[/u] [u]OBP[/u] [u]SLG[/u] [u]OPS[/u] Hall 'o6 .270 .345 .553 .898 Hall '07 .260 .320 .438 .758</font> 

[TooLiveBrew]

all the way across the board = 4 well-known statistical categories?

 

his BB/K rate is similar to 2006 - which was a career year in nearly every category - at 39% ('06) to 34% ('07); his 2B total (35) is on pace to pass his 39 from '06 - even with significant time missed due to injury; his OBP-BA differential is, I think, in line with career norms (again, '07 may prove to be an outlier for Hall); his ISP is at .180 (not great, but not cause for alarm)

 

I'm not attempting to argue that Hall hasn't dropped off this year, merely that it hasn't been in much other than HRs. Sure, his approach at the plate has been terrible at times this year, but I just don't think there's cause for concern going forward.

[jason21nl]

i'll give rick some props. His last couple games have been awesome. His power stroke is coming back and dude gets on base. His glove however has slipped some lately and we can't have that.

[sbrylski]

Bill Hall's LD% is actually up this season, so he's hitting the ball well. Last year he had a very high HR/FB rate, so its very possible that 35 will be his career high HR total. As always he could stand to walk a little more. I think last season gave a bit of a false impression of Hall. He's still a very good CFer, and in a season where he's switched to a dramatically different position and spent time injured, I'm okay with some down numbers. I think he'll bounce back nicely next season with a mid-800 OPS and ~25 homers.

[adambr2]

Weeks now has a .381 OBP as a leadoff man this season.

 

Of the 27 players in MLB with at least 300 PA's leading off, he's 5th in that group in OBP, right behind guys like Ichiro, Hanley Ramirez, etc.

 

This is in a year where he has pretty much struggled the entire season.

 

So I can't understand whatsoever why some people really don't believe that he is a significant part of our ballclub's future.

 

And to those who wanted to unload Weeks for whatever we could get and give up on him, that's just comical. If we really wanted to unload Weeks, we could get a damn good return for him.

 

2B is a premium position. If you can get a player of Weeks' caliber at 2B, it's huge. In the NL, Utley and Kelly Johnson are about the cream of the crop. There are plenty of teams out there that would jump at the chance to make Week's their 2B of the future.

[TooLiveBrew]

did anyone suggest we get rid of Weeks? Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't recall hearing that.

[adambr2]

did anyone suggest we get rid of Weeks? Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't recall hearing that.

 

Nah, sorry, I should've been more clear. Brewerfan.net 'ers are usually pretty educated fans. I wouldn't be surprised if it was suggested by a few here that we just give upon Weeks earlier this year, but in general, I'm sure that wasn't the reaction.

 

But from what I've seen and heard off radio shows, other boards, etc, yeah there were a good chunk of people that were ready to throw him under the bus.

[logan82]

If I recall, Hall wasn't exactly a very good defender either. In fact this year his 9 errors is his fewest since 2002, and that year he only played in 15 games.

The thing I look at is Weeks still gets on base even when he isn't hitting. He and Estrada are pretty much opposite hitters. One has a high(wel kind of) BA and mediocre OBP and the other has a poor BA and a decent OBP.

[Fatter than Joey]

Wow what a utterly wrong statement. Has he not lived up to our lofty expectations? No but to say he is horrible disregards stats. Rickie does not have a great batting average but he does have an excellent obp which is important for a leadoff hitter. His OPS is approaching 800 which is not "horrible" as you say. Players who have worse stats than Rickie currently starting at 2nd in MLB: Luis Castillo, Marcus Giles, Adam Kennedy, Ronnie Belliard, Kaz Matsui etc (that's just a few I could think of in the National League). To be a horrible player you would think that you would be at the bottom when it comes to stats for your position don't you?

 

When I call Weeks a "horrible 2b" I meant just that -- Weeks is a horrible 2b, not a horrible batter.

 

Weeks is about the worst 2b starting in baseball -- that is horrible.

 

Now if you want to look at his batting -- he is in the bottom half (.OPS). If you look at the guys that are underneath him, there are guys like Giles, Castillo, Ellis. etc. that are great fielders, and there are guys like Biggio, Durham, etc. that are the downslope of their career. Overall, Weeks is in the bottom tier of 2b, esp. when you factor in fielding.

 

About the only thing I think Weeks does well is run and draw walks. If he could not draw walks, he would not be in MLB.

 

He is young and has been injured, so I think it is reasonable to extend him some degree of a "mulligan", but I think his peak, is going to be somewhere around "serviceable".