Brewers 2007 MVP (Merged: Corey Hart's Chances At Team MVP)

[Menotti80]

Let me first start off by saying that my 100th post would be a good time to let all of you know how much I've enjoyed reading/posting here in the past year. Thanks to all of the directors, moderators, and Director for your hard work put into this great site. Also thanks to all of the posters for your great insight as well as your senses of humor...

 

Anyways, on to my post. I think it would be interesting to see to you think should get votes for team MVP this year. Although a few mine will probably get 0 votes, I think they still deserve recognition for how valuable they have been to us this year.

 

First I will separate pitchers from position players, then combine them at the end:

 

Position Players:

1. Prince Fielder

2. Ryan Braun

3. Corey Hart

4. J.J. Hardy

5. Geoff Jenkins

 

Pitchers:

1. Brian Shouse

2. Francisco Cordero

3. Ben Sheets

4. Derrick Turnbow

5. Yo Gallardo

 

Overall:

 

1. Prince Fielder

2. Ryan Braun

3. Brian Shouse

4. Corey Hart

5. Francisco Cordero

6. J.J. Hardy

7. Ben Sheets

8. Derrick Turnbow

9. Geoff Jenkins

10. Yo Gallardo

 

Any explanations will come when I see what some of you think. How would you rank them?

 

(added tag --1992)

[Fatter than Joey]

First -- I think that Cordero should be higher than Shouse. Shouse was not that great early on in the year -- and Cordero was unfreaking-believable. When I compare the two, I have to give Cordero more slack, as he gets put into more high leverage situations, and for a long time Shouse was only inserted into favorable matchups. A lot of those wins in that 24-10 stretch can be directly attributed to Cordero slamming the door. Certainly Shouse has been solid as of late -- but overall Cordero I think has been better.

 

Braun has had his defensive warts, but has been a solid contributor.

 

Hard to argue with 40 jacks though.

 

1. Fielder

2. Cordero

3. Braun

[JJHardy7]

I'd go with Braun (I know there has been defensive issues, but where would we be this year if he had to be at AAA all year) and I think Fielder will indeed get more votes than Braun.

 

As far as pitchers, I guess I'd go with Cordero and possibly Turnbow second. Pitchers is more of a difficult call.

[Tbadder]

MVP: Prince. He provides some leadership, 40 taters you can't argue with, has most trade value

MTP: Braun. If he'd been here from the beginning he might be the MVP

MIP: Sheets. Without him they're a below .500 team, with him they could sneak into the playoffs in a pathetic division

 

MVP=best in terms of league wide value

MTP=best raw talent

MIP=best in terms of team importance

[bigbrewkahuna]

Don't laugh,but is there even a smidgen of possibility that Corey Hart could be the teams MVP over Braun or Fielder?

 

Corey is having a good season offensively,but obviously has not been a masher like Braun or Fielder.No debate there.

But Corey appears to be a bit more multi dimensional to the team compared to the other 2.

Could this make him more "valuable" at this point?

 

Hart is more of a base stealer than Fielder and probably better on defense which narrows the gap a bit.He has a slight edge in the stolen base department over Braun and no comment on Brauns defense at this point.Again a bit of narrowing of the gap.And as said before,Corey hasn't been bad on offense.

 

 

Hart is also a good fit anywhere up and down the lineup.

 

Then I think of other teams MVP's like the 05 White Sox Tadahito Iguchi.

Konerko hit 40 bombs and drove in 100. Iguchi never came close to those numbers but won the team MVP award anyway.

The Sox recognized Iguchi's multi dimensional total game and the sacrifices to his stats while batting 2nd to help the team win.

He did deserve to win the teams MVP award.

 

Hart and Iguchi are different types of players and maybe not a real good comparison.But the point is that the MVP stands for most "valuable",not the player with the most glittering stats.

 

Corey appears to be doing good in more apsects of his total game compared to the other 2.Would this make him more "valuable" to the team?Or do their monster offensive seasons still give them the edge?

[Bucky Rules]

Sheets has got to be the MVPitcher. Cordero's been very good -- so has Turnbow for the most part. But, if it's even close, a starter would have to get the nod. But, I don't think it's even close here. Sheets has pitched very well. And time and time again, he came up in the rotation and put an end to any possibility of a losing streak. I know he missed several weeks (to yet another freakish annoying little injury), but he's been as good as advertised when he's been in the rotation.

 

But... team MVP has to go to Prince. Just change his name to King now. The guy's a stud. With him and Braun anchoring the middle of the lineup, things should be fun around here for a while.

[giffted1]

Fielder is the team MVP. Braun may be hitting better than Fielder since he came up, but Fielder is the leader of the team.

 

I think Sheets would be the MVP pitcher with Cordero in a close second. Shouse has been great and deserves a spot in the top 5. Carlos Villanueva is another I'd put in the top 5 for pitchers. He has had a rough second half, but he was huge for us earlier in the year. If he can have more starts like his last one down the stretch he'll really help our playoff chances.

[dadofandrew]

No.

 

That said, he might win league MVP, because Morneau was the 3rd or 4th best player on the Twins last year.//blue;)

[Brian the Automator]

To me, the intangibles that you outline just don't outweigh pure offensive performance. If Corey was a SS or C instead of a corner OF, I'd probably start taking the question more seriously. Factor in that Corey's only projected to play 140 games this year (meaning he sits against tough righties), and I still have to go with Fielder. I'd say Braun if he had been here for the whole year.

[endaround]

Hart's WARP1 5.5

Fielder's WARP1 5.5

Braun's WARP1 3.9

[Barbs4339]

Valuable, absolutely. Most valuable, well just take either Braun or Fielder out of this lineup, and see what happens. Hart has been a pleasant surprise this year and his versatility is very much appreciated, but we have 2 players currently putting up the best offensive numbers in the history of the Brewers. If Hart was doing this last year, maybe he gets it over Bill Hall. But definitely not this year.

[homer]

And for those that have no idea what WARP is....

 

Wins Above Replacement Player - number a wins player gave his team above what an average player at the same position would have

[pitchleague]

well just take either Braun or Fielder out of this lineup, and see what happens.

we kind of had to take Fielder out, and then we got swept by San Francisco. I'm not saying that that was the main onus on us losing those games, but I'm sure it didn't help having your biggest gun on the bench for 2 games--kinda demoralizing if you ask me. And that's what makes Prince so valuable to this team.

 

Corey has been very good and very valuable, but I don't think the MOST valuable player.

[twobrewers]

When combining pitchers and position players - I would definitely put Sheets ahead of Hardy. Hardy was amazing early in the year - but has been very average since.

 

Even thought Sheets has been hurt, without him we aren't even sniffing .500 baseball. I, for one, don't think it is coincidence that once Sheets rejoined the starting rotation - the entire rotation started pitching better.

 

His presence every 5 days just lifts the team and the entire pitching staff.

[Samurai Bucky]

Heck... I'm right around 100 posts, but I'll take a stab anyway:

 

1. Fielder -- his presence also affects those around him in the batting order.

2. Sheets -- He is a leader... and an ace.

3. Braun -- He's crazy good.

4. Cordero -- he did blow saves, but broke the club record for saves. Maybe he won't be used for 30 saves by the all star break if he sticks around?

5. Hart -- going from a platoon player to being a run producer.

6. Hardy -- He has been more consistent lately and would have been #2 early in the season behind fielder.

[bigbrewkahuna]

Well,it all comes down to choosing between 2 guys putting up monster offensive numbers who are no great shakes with the glove,or a more well rounded player who excels in more aspects of the game, but with lesser offensive numbers of the other 2.

 

Fielder or Braun will win the team MVP of course.

But by taking a good look at the big picture,I question whether the gap between Hart and the other 2 is as significant as it may seem at a glance.

[mothershipconnection]

He's definitely not MVP, but you could easily argue that he's our most balanced player, in that he's pretty good at everything, as opposed to Prince's running and occasional D lapses and Braun's erratic arm.

[logan82]

I go with Carlos Villanueva. I can't believe he didn't even get a mention. While Cordero was racking up easy saves at the end of games CV was coming in in the middle innings, usually in tough spots, and getting us through games. I would guess he has worked the most high leverage innings of any of our pitchers.

 

EDIT: If he pitches like he did last night he will also have come in and helped save our team from our collection of starting pitchers.

[PlayerHader]

MVP-Prince Fielder-He's been the man through the best of times and been right there with Braun during the worst of times. Full season gives him an important edge over Braun.

 

I'd go with Sheets for the most valuable pitcher award also. If not for the fluke injury again he'd be flirting with 20 wins for the year. I really believe that.

[brewcrewkid14]

Hart is easily one of my favorite Brewers along with Hardy and Braun. He is definitely as close as they come to five tool players that this team has, and once he develops that defense out in right field a little bit, he could be one of the better corner outfielders in the NL.

 

If I had to take the Brewers' roster today and decide who to keep and who will have to be let go (for money reasons) Braun, Fielder, and then Hardy and Hart (who may have a slight edge) are basically equal.

 

That is going to be one tough decision for the GM at the time (hopefully Melvin or somebody of his wisdom) to make.

 

I'm just going to enjoy the ride until we get to that point though. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[billyhallfan]

And for those that have no idea what WARP is....

 

Wins Above Replacement Player - number a wins player gave his team above what an average player at the same position would have

 

How is that calculated?

[endaround]

WARP basically adds defense to a runs calculated formula from offense. The close nature is because BP has Hart above average defensively while both Braun and Fielder are terrible.

[Ennder]

If Hart had played CF full time I could really see the argument. Playing RF I think his defense plays a little bit less into things. He also sat out a bit because of the injuries while Fielder was in there pretty much every day. Braun might not make the top 3, even with the great offense he is terrible in the field.

[Menotti80]

I go with Carlos Villanueva. I can't believe he didn't even get a mention. While Cordero was racking up easy saves at the end of games CV was coming in in the middle innings, usually in tough spots, and getting us through games. I would guess he has worked the most high leverage innings of any of our pitchers.

 

EDIT: If he pitches like he did last night he will also have come in and helped save our team from our collection of starting pitchers.

He wasn't mentioned by me because Shouse clearly has outperformed Carlos this year. Villy was even demoted to AAA at one point. I do think he has potential to really help this team down the stretch, but for now, Shouse has been the man. He has been thrown into many tough situations, if not more. I cant think of more than 1 game we lost because of him. I can think of a few for Villy.

Shouse has been completely overlooked and underrated by people on this board IMO.

[logan82]

Villy got sent down so he could be stretched out and lined up for a starting spot, not because he sucked. Yeah Shouse has come in in tough spots, but other than a handful of times it has been for at most an inning. Several of the times he has come in have been exclusively as a loogy. Carlos has come in and bailed out our pen several times, including a start where he had 10 minutes of notice. Now he is a starter and again, hopefully, will be bailing out our starting pitchers who have been a dissapointment the whole 2nd half so far. I don't think you are wrong, I am just trying to explain why I disagree.