Best Defensive Player in Brewers History

[Jay Zahn]

Has there ever been a great defensive player that played for the Brewers? How about a very good one? Seriously, what does one look like, day to day?

 

I think the 25 years without a Gold Glove in its way is more pathetic than not being in the playoffs. At least I saw Higuera, so I know what a dominant starting pitcher is like. With defense, I feel like I'm colorblind being a Brewers fan.

[Fatter than Joey]

George Scott was a great defensive 1b -- probably one of the best of his time.

 

Really the teams of the 70s-80s were very solid defensively.

 

Gantner was an exceptional 2b. -- probably 2nd to Frank White.

 

Money was a great 3b in his prime

 

Yount was a great defender.

 

Cooper was a good 1b.

 

Sixto Lezcano was a very good RF.

 

Probably the best C that the Brewers had from a defensive standpoint, especially arm-strength, was Charlie O'Brien.

 

Charlie Moore was a great roster spot, as he could play both RF and C well defensively.

 

Another defensive whiz I remember was Lenn Sakata.

 

This is just off the top of my head -- I am sure I am making some glaring omissions.

 

Probably though in comparison to his peers, George Scott was the greatest Brewer defender.

[Patrick425]

I think the 25 years without a Gold Glove in its way is more pathetic than not being in the playoffs.

Gold Glove awards are somewhat of a joke. They tend to be more about how you do offensively and how good the team is that you play for than actual defensive play.

[sbrylski]

Geoff Jenkins should have won a Gold Glove a few years back, IIRC.

[colbyjack]

Gold Gloves are awarded more on reputation that actual merit. I remember thinking that Cirillo should have won a few when he was with the Brewers (an award that Ken Caminiti and Scott Rolen have owned throughout Cirillo's career in the NL).

 

I'm going to go with Gantner, who was so good and reliable for so long at both second base and third base. However, if J.J. Hardy has a long career in Milwaukee, he could receive that honor in a similar conversation 20 years from now. The way he makes the game look so easy is so incredibly enjoyable to watch.

 

Charlie O'Brien jumped immediately to mind before Fatter Than Joey brought him up, as FTJ brought up a bunch of good names (although Lezcano always had a reputation of being scared of the OF fence, which made him a little hesitant on balls hit over his head, and caused him to play deeper than most).

 

Another catcher named Charlie, Charlie Greene, was an amazing backstop as well, probably the best I've ever seen. Greene is now the Brewers roving catching instructor. I seem to remember him making some part of Team USA for his defense abilities alone in the mid to late 90s, as he could never hit a lick.

 

Bill Schroeder would probably mention Mike Matheny if you asked him http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

[Baldkin]

Matheny was a great catcher, considering what we ran out behind the plate for 6 or 7 years, he would've been just as good, and at least been + defensively.

 

And gold gloves are overrated. See Jeter, Derek.

[Mike Felder]

It will sound like heresy, but the Baseball Prospective metrics (I looked mostly at FRAA to find above average rather than FRAR for replacement level) rate Yount as a below average fielder for 12 of his seasons (including his gold glove year of 1982 and second MVP year of 1989) and below average overall for his career.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/yountro01.php

Gantner rates as a very good fielder.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/gantnji01.php

Actually, Molitor rates as a good fielder...solid at all the infield positions and not so great in the outfield.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/molitpa01.php

I wanted to look up Scott, Lezcano, etc., but I'm getting tired now. Maybe someone else can do it...

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'm not sure who the best of all-time is...all I'm sure of is he's not currently on the roster.

 

I'd probably go with Gantner, Sixto, the Boomer, Cirillo and Matheny...all good choices.

[bigredrobbo]

Wes Helms?

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[mothershipconnection]

I think the 25 years without a Gold Glove in its way is more pathetic than not being in the playoffs.

 

You can't get too worried about gold gloves because of how subjective it all is. There's no reliable statistic, and nobody watches every game. Thus, guys with highlight potential and great offensive numbers become more salient and will win out over a guy who's superior (but not flashy) defensively. Jeter would NEVER win a gold glove if he were a .725 OPS shortstop for the Brewers.

 

There are guys like Ozzie and Brooks Robinson who win because they're simply amazing, and then there are guys who win because they have to give the award to somebody and they're the most recognizable of the guys who are "pretty good".

[SoCalBrewfan]

I would guess off the top of my head that the best defensive season by a Brewer was a Don Money season, like 73 or 74, though ISTR that some of his best defensive years came in Philly. That or Gantner mid 80s or Cirillo late 90s.

 

I'd have a hard time picking a best defensive SS season...it might well be something crazy like the single year that Royce Clayton was here, or Counsell a few years back.

[TooLiveBrew]

I always thought 'Rillo got screwed over in not getting a GG. In his prime, the barehand, charging the plate play was as routine as playing catch. Jeff could really, really pick 'em.

[saget]

I would've thought Jenkins should have a few Gold Gloves in his resume from a few years back.

[Yaz]

Jim Gantner all the way. In fact, there is a factoid out there that showed during the time he played he held the best fielding pct. for a secondbaseman other than Frank White(Royals). Yeah, the Gold Glove is a popularity contest when it's all said and done. If they would pick players based on there fielding percentage then those players like Griffey, Maddux, etc. would not have as many gold gloves as they do have now.

[igor67]

From a couple of different sources Jenkins was the best defensive LF of the last 10+ years or so.

[bigbrewkahuna]

Rick Manning in CF.Better glove than bat.

[burniebrewer]

Charlie Moore was a great roster spot, as he could play both RF and C well defensively.

 

If I recall, Charlie Moore had a canon arm in RF and Gantner was very good.

 

My choice is Cirillo though. I never worried when a ball was hit his way, I just felt he'd make every play.

[Fatter than Joey]

If I recall, Charlie Moore had a cannon arm in RF.

 

He had a great arm. Moore was a superb defensive OF, as well as a C. Plus he could run as well.

 

Typically you wouldn't want a guy like Moore as a corner OF, but with Simmons catching, you could live with Moore in RF.