Coop in Brewer history.

[brewcrewnation]

Where does everyone rank Coop in Brewer history. I rank Coop third behind Robin and Molitor.

[Fatter than Joey]

Speaking Strictly to position players and to their overall talent as compared to their counterparts in the league.

 

I think Cooper is in the top 5 discussion with perhaps Simmons, Gantner, Thomas and Scott (besides Yount and Molitor)

[davego]

Hard to get past him. Maybe George Scott? Teddy (if we are going to put pitchers in). Other then that...of the top of my head hard to come up with any that did more in the 'Crew uniform. Gantner was not nearly the player that Coop was, but did play in Milwaukee a lot longer.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Coop was a much better hitter for average than George Scott was. I remember Coop being a real upgrade at that position. Ted Simmons did not contribute on the field the way Coop did. Simmons caught like a DH. I think that Coop is the best hitter the Brewers have ever had. Although I think that Robin and Molly did more for the Brewers overall than Coop did. I am surprised that he is a manager based on the type of player he was. He didn't seem like a leader to me, of course I could be wrong. I had heard that the team leaders during Coop's tenure were Simmons, Gorman, Robin, Vuke, and I think Charlie Moore. Plus, I don't remember Coop talking to the media. Those guys usually don't end up as managers.

[Fatter than Joey]

I remember Coop being a real upgrade at that position.

 

At the point when Coop replaced Scott, Cooper was a better player (i.e. Scott was declining, Cooper was improving).

 

Scott almost won a triple crown in Milw. and finished 2nd a couple of times in BA. Scott was a better fielder.

 

Scott in his prime was probably as good if not better than Cooper in his prime.

[mls4]

Just for reference, Cooper's ranks in Brewer history include: 3rd in batting average (.302); 4th in slugging pct.(.470); 8th in OPS (.809); 4th in games (1,490), plate appearances (6,492), and HR (201); 3rd in runs (821), hits (1,815), total bases (2,829), and doubles (345); 5th in triples (33); and 2nd in RBI.

 

To me, that makes him easily the 3rd best offensive Brewer.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Clear cut third. A perennial .300+ hitter with power. Coop's season in 1980 was one of the great ones. If it wasn't for Brett's stalking of .400...he would have been a lock for MVP that year. As great as Fingers was as a Brewer and as a deserved HOF...I would have retired Coop's jersey before Rollie's. That's no disrespect to Fingers either.

 

He was one of the smartest Brewers ever as well...a real student of hitting and the game. The only thing a little curious about Coop as a manager is my one knock on him...he used to dog it to first base occasionally. I wouldn't want to pull that if I was playing for Coop.

[brewerjamie15]

Cecil Cooper does not get enough credit for things he did as a player for the Brewers.

As far as career marks with the team, he shows up all over the place:

 

These numbers are from the 2007 Media Guide and are based on the top 10 of all time.

 

#4 games- 1490 (Yount, Molitor, Gantner)

#4 AB's- 6019 (Yount, Molitor, Gantner)

#3 Runs- 821 (Yount, Molitor)

#3 Hits- 1815 (Yount,Molitor)

#4 Singles-1236 (Yount, Molitor, Gantner)

#3 Doubles- 345 (Yount, Mlitor)

#5 Triples- 33 (Yount, Molitor, Moore, Gantner)

#4 Home Runs- 191 (Yount, Thomas,Jenkins)

#2 RBI's- 944 (Yount)

#3 Extra base hits- 579 (Yount, Molitor)

#3 Total Bases- 2829 (Yount, Molitor)

#3 Batting Avg. {min.3,000 PA} -.302 (Cirillo, Molitor)

#10 BB- 367 (Yount, Molitor, Thomas, Money, Oglivie, Burnitz, Vaughn, Gantner, Cirillo)

#7 K's- 721 (Yount,Thomas, Jenkins, Molitor, Deer, Vaughn,)

#10 OBP {min 3,000 PA} .339 (Cirillo, Molitor, Burnitz, Nillson, Lezcano, Jenkins, Oglivie, Yount, Scott)

#3 Slugging Percentage {min 3,000 PA} - .470 (Burnitz, Jenkins)

 

Based on the above numbers, Cooper averages 4.4375 of 10. Since Gantner does not beat out Cooper wholly by an average placement in the top 10, he can not be placed in the number three spot. Therefore, using this information, Cecil Cooper is currently the third best Brewer of all time.

 

However, since he is my favorite player of all time, I am naming him as not only the very best Brewer of all time, but the best baseball player there has ever been or ever will be. All awards given in any sport or any aspect of anything at all will heretofore be known as Cecil Cooper Awards. All streets in the United States will be renamed Cecil Cooper way.

[Jay Zahn]

One funny thing I remember about Cooper, and it's an oddity of the well-remembered 1987 season:

 

Cooper wasn't having much of a year for the 1987 Brewers - .248 with 6 home runs at July 12th, as a DH. And that's where he stayed, because the Brewers benched him and he never played again. Instead of releasing him or Cooper retiring or something else, he sat the bench for the whole rest of the season...

[colbyjack]

The 1987 really hurt Cooper's long-standing reputation with the Milwaukee Brewers in my mind. The team was surging, and he was not, and somewhat got lost in the shuffle.

 

Without a doubt, he didn't handle it well, but anytime I hear people mention that he wasn't a good team leader it makes me think of this.

 

I remember a lot of stories about Cooper being a more soft-spoken and well-reasoned leader, always keeping his cool and leading by example with his teammates. In Nine Innings by Daniel Okrent, he constantly refers to Cooper as a constant force type leader for the rest of his team, the type of guy everyone could rely on even if he wasn't the most flashy player in the world.

 

I, like Jamie, will always hold Cooper as my most favorite player of all time. I know there is another post out there that partially named his kid after Cooper, but I can say that my wife tricked me into getting the dog we still own today 7 years ago by suggesting we name him "Cooper."

 

And yes, he's the 3rd greatest Brewer of all-time behind Yount and Molitor, which is saying a lot, since Hank Aaron may have been on the tail end of his career, but is still the greatest player of all time to ever adorn a Brewers jersey.

[Patrick425]

Instead of releasing him or Cooper retiring or something else, he sat the bench for the whole rest of the season...

Yeah, I remember that very clearly myself as well. I recall there being a shirt that was being sold at Merle Harmons that had "Cooper's sitting streak" on it....remember this was the same year as Molly's hitting streak.

[Mike Felder]

I always wondered what the deal was with Coop during the 1987 season...I was only 5, so I don't remember any specifics, but I looked him up on Retrosheet awhile ago and saw that his last game was in July and that he wasn't hurt or sent down. Was he really that bad that they wouldn't play him, or were there other issues? And why give up a roster spot all second half to a guy you know isn't going to play?

[davego]

I remember that well. Coop would get asked by a reporter about not playing and he would always respond with something like it is up to the manager. Then treb would get asked and he would say something along the lines of that he was putting together the best line-up he could. I didn't get it either but sort of held that against Treb. Fair or not.

[Patrick425]

Yeah, and baseball was managed a little differently 20 years ago (or at least how I remember it). There didn't seem to be as much lefty/righty match up bs that you see now. I remember as a kid , I not only did I know the Brewers line up in the late 70's - early 80's, but also the lineups of many other teams..Yankees, Dodgers, etc. Mainly because they didn't change that much from day to day. Now it seems like every team has a different lineup every freakn' day.

 

Of course I'm sure someone will go to retrosheet and point out to me that the Brewers used 90 different lineups in 87'.

[Fatter than Joey]

Some managers used their bench way more than others. Overall, it is probably not that much different.

[Patrick425]

Overall, it is probably not that much different.

I would like to see an analysis of that. Maybe not so much 87', but go back just a littler further...like maybe 1980. How many different stating line-ups were used by managers back then vs. now. If I had to bet, I would say that the number would be at least 20% less in 1980 vs 2006.

[Tbadder]

As far as talent I rank Cooper #2. Molly #1 and Robin #3.