What is with all the criticism of the fans?

[Fatter than Joey]

I think it's a fans right to boo.

 

It is -- And certainly the Brewers have been punching their fanbase below the belt a lot these last weeks, but I fail to see what booing accomplishes, especially in a player's ear while they are trying to perform.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

For a team that has been bad for so long it seems like a weird time to boo.

 

Bravo!!!

 

The booing is lame. The preemptive booing is pathetic. For the first time in years we've got a competitive team. They are young, they make a boatload of mistakes and they frustrate the heck out of us...but for the first time in years, we've got a team that actually cares as much as the fans do...and certain fans treat them like this? I don't get it. For years we've been subjected to players that treat Milwaukee as a AAA stop on their way to another contract. These guys are Brewers...and want to win it at Brewers. As long as they aren't dogging it...there shouldn't be booing.

 

I do also think the players need to understand where the fans are coming from. Most of them weren't born the last time we were in it. We've been subjected to tough baseball economics, bad management and then were sent a bill for a big shiny new stadium. So maybe we're a little frustrated because we want it so bad and it's so close. I don't expect a pitcher who has been here one month to get that...but he should as well. I get the frustration...but I still wish we wouldn't boo...let's get behind these guys and give them some encouragement!!!

[moofnelson]

There are times where I think this team deserves to be booed. I'm sure it doesn't effect anything, but I can understand a fan's frustration. Yet, last night, when Yost walked off the mound after talking to Linebrink, and I heard how loud the boos were, I was a little embarrassed as a Brewer fan. That was poor.

 

Linebrink, though, should keep his mouth shut. He hasn't shown Milwaukee fans much since he's been here.

[rluzinski]

Some of the pro-booing crowd's comments make it clear that there's still some confusion floating around. Let me help:

 

1. It's a fan's right to express any emotion that they want at the park. No one will stop you from booing, cheering, laughing or crying.

 

2. Being frustrated in the team's play is not only understandable, it's expected. I can't imagine a Brewer fan that hasn't been extremely frustrated for large parts of this season.

 

The anti-booing crowds position is simply:

 

1. Booing in no way helps the team and probably hurts it to some, unknown degree.

 

2. Constantly booing makes Brewer fans and city of Milwaukee look ignorant and classless.

 

Players are complaining because they are human beings who don't like being booed. Crazy, huh? And the first person who says, "Than they shouldn't suxors!" ...

[bjkrautk]

There are times where I think this team deserves to be booed. I'm sure it doesn't effect anything, but I can understand a fan's frustration. Yet, last night, when Yost walked off the mound after talking to Linebrink, and I heard how loud the boos were, I was a little embarrassed as a Brewer fan. That was poor.

 

Linebrink, though, should keep his mouth shut. He hasn't shown Milwaukee fans much since he's been here.

I'll be the first to admit a small sample (16.2 IP), but his ERA in Milwaukee is sitting at 3.78, sixth lowest on the team. (He's also been the sixth-lowest ERA since the A-S break....and will likely move up to 5th when/if Aquino has more than .1 Inning -- those were inherited runners, lest we forget.) He's also in the top 10 in the NL in Holds, if that stat means anything to you.

 

I really don't see any problem with Linebrink's pitching; to be honest, I feared he'd be much worse than he has been. To complain about his pitching is just another demonstration of how people continue to lose track of the big picture. Relievers don't put up a zero every time they're in the game....their runs are magnified because it's later in the game, and because the offense seems to stop scoring runs after about 6 innings.

 

What exactly am I supposed to be booing, the few times that he has allowed runs to score, when the rest of the team failed to pick him up?

Or am I supposed to blame the manager for not predicting the days in which Linebrink would be able to put up a scoreless inning, and failing to plan around it?

[lcbj68c]

Would you ever boo your brother or son if he had pitched like Linebrink did last night

 

Nope, nor if he had a whole season like that, ala Lidge.

[dadofandrew]

You know, Turnbow was beyond bad in the 2nd half last year, and I don't recall him being booed with nearly the venom that we're seeing this year. I guess you can write it off to the race, or the casual fan; or both, perhaps.

[JenksFan5]

The only bad part about booing Linebrink is that he was not necessarily the one that was responsible for the jam he was put into. If Weeks doesn't make the error, the Astros did not score. And I am not ragging on Rickie because he has been much improved defensively, but Linebrink did his best and stil got out of the jam without losing the lead. It wasn't a great outing, but given the situation, it could have been worse.

I for one never boo and never will. It accomplishes nothing in a game situation other than to vent your own frustrations and I can do that in other ways.

[Bring Back the Stein]

I've missed some posts, but, apparently, making fun of Matt Stairs's golden year with the Brewers and his girth is enough for someone to proclaim that I "don't get it" as a fan. (A little bit too ad hominem for this site, no?)

 

A holier-than-thou tendency, more than booing, makes it less fun to be a fan. But then, maybe that's what some folks want: A stadium of 14,000 vacant-eyed cheerleaders who can hold prayer testimonials to themselves and their authenticity as "True Fans" in the stead of the sausage races (which those darn "casual fans" seem to enjoy, the rubes). This is supposed to be fun, and booing is part of that fun.

[gregmag]

The thing I don't get about this discussion is that people are talking as if there's some particular, individualized thought process going on, and that process is peculiar to Milwaukee. I've lived in Philly for eight years. The fans are just ruthless sometimes -- in a pressure situation, they'll definitely get on a pitcher for throwing seven straight balls before any damage has actually happened, or a hitter for taking a couple of bad swings.

 

We talk a lot about sample size. Well, a stadium full of people is a pretty sizable sample of humanity, or at least the American public. I think fans are by and large the same everywhere. The reason we're talking about this as if it's a big deal is because, as Brewers fans, we aren't used to being in a pennant race. By all means, some of the points about why booing is counterproductive are valid. But fans in any ballpark in America would be on the same hair trigger if their team had been giving games away like the Brewers have been. It's completely predictable behavior, and I don't think it will change until circumstances do.

 

Linebrink's comments, to me, are unprofessional in the extreme. He is an individual with a platform; he can make responsible choices about what he says. As a lavishly overpaid professional, he should be grateful for the support he does get, and he should shut up when he feels aggrieved. He should especially shut up given that he has only been here for a little while and has not, IMHO, pitched well. Let him leave, pitch like this elsewhere, and see how his new fans respond. But then we get this --

 

To complain about [Linebrink's] pitching is just another demonstration of how people continue to lose track of the big picture.

 

BJK, that's really condescending. I'm pretty focused on the big picture, and I think Linebrink has hurt the team quite a bit. In his 16+ innings, he has allowed 28 baserunners and has lost three games; he has also, FWIW, allowed four unearned runs on top of his seven earned. To me, those are some terrible numbers for a middle reliever. Of course I may be wrong; you may be right to focus on his Milwaukee ERA and his season total for holds. But to act like there aren't even two sides to the issue . . . come on.

 

Greg.

[JenksFan5]

One of the most embarrassing moments for me as a Brewer fan came at the game on Saturday night when the Brewers played a great game and Yost brought in Stetter for his Major League debut and got booed after he could not find the plate. He hit a batter, walked a batter and then hit another one. The guy was clearly rushing his delivery and looked like he was crapping his pants out of nervousness/excitement and the fans booed him. The guy obviously wasn't trying to throw wildly and was clearly nervous. I think I would be a little nervous as well if I were pitching in my first major league game no matter what the score was. It was a perfect time to get out the jitters as the Crew had a 10-run lead and instead of getting behind the guy, he got booed.

 

Brewers fans are better than that or I should say were better than that, but I guess that goes with the territory when you have a more competitive team and people are actually paying attention that maybe haven't followed the team too closely for the last decade. I just wish that Milwaukee could be a place that differed from the larger markets and their fanbases, but we are becoming more and more like Cubs/Phillies/Yankees/Red Sox fans everyday.

[Tbadder]

I'm really, really bothered that Melvin and Mark A. would level that criticism at the fans. If the Brewers have the talent to win the division, which I believe is true, indeed I don't think any team is even close talent-wise, then they should be playing up to their potential. That's the manager's job--to utilize and bring out the best of each individual.

 

And don't give me that tired old adage about emotional reactions. I hate football, but when a football team stinks up the place most of them have the guts to say publically "we're not very good" or "will never make the playoffs the way we're playing." Now obviously these are paraphrased, but you get the drift. When you can admit it pubically, it forces everyone to take personal responsibility and it's cathartic as well.

 

And the other tired excuse is the "baseball is a long season" argument. Well, that's just so convient isn't it. Lets sit on our collective hands while we wait for the baseball stats to even out, etc. Metaphorically, that's taking a close pitch 3-2. It's loser mentailty. And it's all hindsight. To look to the past (which all stats are--history) to solve your problems today is a simplification pure and simple. You got a problem you make changes, period. Yost has a losing record. And now he's got a chance to have a losing record with the best team in the division, well fricken bravo Doug and Mark. You put your eggs in that basket you'll never have anything but dormat philosophy.

 

The only conclusion I can come to is that the people who are leading this organization never believed they could win the division in the first place. I thought we had dispensed with Bud Selig mentailty. I guess not.

 

Now if we really aren't a very good team. Then I'm completely wrong and I apologize to our mediocre players and mananger. By all means keep your jobs and we can look forward to next season (just like the last 25 seasons).

[lcbj68c]

That's the manager's job--to utilize and bring out the best of each individual.

 

I agree, but he can't hold their hand at the plate, nor on the mound or in the field. The bottom line is if the fans want to voice their displeasure, yep it's a free country. But if an athlete wants to voice thier displeasure with the booing suddenly the fans are "too good that he can't talk to me like that?" I don't get that. Linebrink came in, did his job, didn't allow a run. He didnt strike out the side on 9 pitches. What was he supposed to say, "Sorry for making it close, I'll be sure to be perfect next time?" Unreal.

[rluzinski]

Booing fans treat poor play like it was a conscious decision by the player to wrong them.

[homer]

"If the Brewers have the talent to win the division, which I believe is true, indeed I don't think any team is even close talent-wise, then they should be playing up to their potential."

 

Raw talent is one thing. Talent + experience is another.

 

Not to mention the injury factor to guys like Sheets (which is ginormous) or Weeks.

[SeriesFinale]

Booing fans treat poor play like it was a conscious decision by the player to wrong them.

"If I boo them then they'll know this poor play is unacceptable and they won't do it again."

[lcbj68c]

"If I boo them then they'll know this poor play is unacceptable and they won't do it again."

 

+2

[bjkrautk]

The thing I don't get about this discussion is that people are talking as if there's some particular, individualized thought process going on, and that process is peculiar to Milwaukee. I've lived in Philly for eight years. The fans are just ruthless sometimes -- in a pressure situation, they'll definitely get on a pitcher for throwing seven straight balls before any damage has actually happened, or a hitter for taking a couple of bad swings.

 

We talk a lot about sample size. Well, a stadium full of people is a pretty sizable sample of humanity, or at least the American public. I think fans are by and large the same everywhere. The reason we're talking about this as if it's a big deal is because, as Brewers fans, we aren't used to being in a pennant race. By all means, some of the points about why booing is counterproductive are valid. But fans in any ballpark in America would be on the same hair trigger if their team had been giving games away like the Brewers have been. It's completely predictable behavior, and I don't think it will change until circumstances do.

 

Linebrink's comments, to me, are unprofessional in the extreme. He is an individual with a platform; he can make responsible choices about what he says. As a lavishly overpaid professional, he should be grateful for the support he does get, and he should shut up when he feels aggrieved. He should especially shut up given that he has only been here for a little while and has not, IMHO, pitched well. Let him leave, pitch like this elsewhere, and see how his new fans respond. But then we get this --

 

To complain about [Linebrink's] pitching is just another demonstration of how people continue to lose track of the big picture.

 

BJK, that's really condescending. I'm pretty focused on the big picture, and I think Linebrink has hurt the team quite a bit. In his 16+ innings, he has allowed 28 baserunners and has lost three games; he has also, FWIW, allowed four unearned runs on top of his seven earned. To me, those are some terrible numbers for a middle reliever. Of course I may be wrong; you may be right to focus on his Milwaukee ERA and his season total for holds. But to act like there aren't even two sides to the issue . . . come on.

 

Greg.

 

IMO, a focus on Wins and baserunners ignores the 11 times out of 17 outings that he didn't allow a run (earned or otherwise) to score. Or that his K/9 IP ratio has increased significantly since the trade, and is much closer to his career numbers. Or that he's inducing ground balls at a surprising rate (1.44 GB/FB; he's .088 career), which has allowed the guys behind him to turn 4 double plays...which in turn is keeping his ERA down.

 

To treat someone as a pariah (ie, someone who shouldn't have a right to speak up about being booed before allowing an earned run) who has been our third-best reliever since the All-Star Break (behind Cordero & Shouse, by ERA), on the basis of 5-6 outings (or the 3 appearences wherein he was saddled with a loss), does strike me as overly pessimistic, short-sighted....whatever you would like to call it.

I recognize the arguments on the other side -- admittedly, his OPS against is far higher than I'd like, and he was the one left holding the bag when this team was at its worst. I also think that some of the negativity directed at Linebrink is displaced hostility over the transaction that brought him to Milwaukee, and his delay / bereavment in reporting shortly after the trade. I just happen to feel that the animosity for Scott Linebrink would be more consistent with a 5.78 ERA, instead of his 3.78 (3.80 for the season).

[RightFieldCoder]

I boo'd Yost for brining in Aquino on Monday. I don't think there was any valid reason to take out Shouse and replace him with Aquino except that Aquino is right handed. And I can counter that by saying RH are hitting better against Aquino than against Shouse.

 

I don't understand the boo'ing Tuesday and publicly made fun of the boo'ing at the stadium. Linebrink walked one guy, induced three ground balls, and one Texas-league blooper to center. I give credit to luck for the jam more than Linebrink. Yet Yost was boo'ed mercilessly for leaving him in. I don't think he's a very good game manager, but sometimes people overreact about good decisions that go wrong.

[Mike Felder]

I was at the game Tuesday and was embarrassed. As many others on this thread have said, why boo Linebrink for, basically, walking one batter (Weeks booted a grounder and the other was a Texas Leaguer)? If I was Linebrink, I would have been pissed about that. And booing Ned for leaving him in made no sense either, it's not like there were better options. I think there are appropriate times and occasions to boo during a game/season, but this was most certainly not one of them. It made us look very stupid as a fanbase.

 

Someone mentioned they heard booing during the Biggio ceremony...I didn't hear any booing in the ballpark at that time and was very surprised to read this. I would hope we are classier than that.

[valpocrewsader]

Why is everyone so sure that the booing on Tuesday was directed at Linebrink? I probably would have let out a boo or two that inning, but it would've had nothing to do with Linebrink. It'd be directly squarely at Rickie's defensive crapulence and Billy's defensive below-averageness that almost cost us that game.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I didn't see anything wrong with booing the team (which didn't even sound too loud on the TV broadcast) when they were on the verge of blowing yet another game. On back-to-back nights. While already leading the league in that category. By a fanbase that has been hugely supportive and dumped tons of money into the organization over the past 15 years and gotten NOTHING for it. This franchise needs to stop sucking for a while before this fanbase can relax and be less on edge.

[Fatter than Joey]

I just happen to feel that the animosity for Scott Linebrink would be more consistent with a 5.78 ERA

 

He did have a 5.40 ERA in August, plus 3 losses. I think there are expectations (perhaps unfair) when you go get a guy like Linebrink, post-AS break, he is going to do better than a 5.40 ERA and 3 losses in his first full month.

 

I think in a large part the fans are booing the seventh inning, as that is when the wheels seem to come off the trolley. I really don't think this is directed at Linebrink. I bet if any pitcher started the seventh with a three run lead and gave up a walk and 2 crappy singles, the fans would flip on "Here we go again mode" and start to boo, regardless of who was on the mound.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just feel like the only way to take the booing is to just accept that it's going to happen when a team has been playing as much cardiac-arrest baseball as the Crew have lately. It doesn't help the team, I don't ever do it (boo my own team), but I don't get how the players are so 'surprised'. Their feelings are just getting hurt by it, which is what led fans to boo in the first place (fans' feelings being hurt), and neither side is responding well. As mentioned, this is the first time in well over a decade that the Brewers have ever been in it this late. Heck, I remember as a kid going to games in the '92 chase, and attendance at County Stadium was embarassingly low. I've never forgotten my father turning to me at one point in a game and saying, "This team is in the middle of a pennant race, and even that isn't enough for people to turn out to support them. This is sad, and it really ticks me off."

 

So now we have folks going to the games, and the high-stress, recent string of failures combo is manifesting itself in the booing. It's not an apology, nor is it an endorsement, but it is what it is, and the sooner we can all recognize that it's not about the fans' "rights" or the players' "due allegiance from the fans", the better. Because then maybe we can just get past this and see some great baseball.

[pitchleague]

could some of the booing last night when Yost went to the mound and then left Linebrink on the mound been one of those kinds of boos you hear at basketball games where the fans are merciless everytime that one player touches the ball?

 

i.e. they booed Yost when he left the dugout to go to the mound, quieted down a tad during the mound conversation, and then booed Yost as he left the field to go back to the dugout.

 

If so, that's pretty weak, albeit even if Ned maybe does deserve it to some degree (maybe not mericless booing).

[gregmag]

IMO, a focus on Wins and baserunners ignores the 11 times out of 17 outings that he didn't allow a run (earned or otherwise) to score. Or that his K/9 IP ratio has increased significantly since the trade, and is much closer to his career numbers. Or that he's inducing ground balls at a surprising rate (1.44 GB/FB; he's .088 career), which has allowed the guys behind him to turn 4 double plays...which in turn is keeping his ERA down.

 

To treat someone as a pariah (ie, someone who shouldn't have a right to speak up about being booed before allowing an earned run) who has been our third-best reliever since the All-Star Break (behind Cordero & Shouse, by ERA), on the basis of 5-6 outings (or the 3 appearences wherein he was saddled with a loss), does strike me as overly pessimistic, short-sighted....whatever you would like to call it.

 

I recognize the arguments on the other side -- admittedly, his OPS against is far higher than I'd like, and he was the one left holding the bag when this team was at its worst. I also think that some of the negativity directed at Linebrink is displaced hostility over the transaction that brought him to Milwaukee, and his delay / bereavment in reporting shortly after the trade. I just happen to feel that the animosity for Scott Linebrink would be more consistent with a 5.78 ERA, instead of his 3.78 (3.80 for the season).

 

So, in other words, you fully intended to be condescending, and you stand by it. Good to know. I'm not "ignoring" the facts you cite, and I don't have "displaced hostility" about the trade. (My hostility about the trade is quite forthright, and doesn't have any necessary connection to whether the 30 innings we get from Linebrink are great or terrible.) I just disagree with your conclusion. At the same time, I respect you enough to give you credit for intelligence and reasoning capacity equal to my own. It's a shame you can't see your way clear to according me the same consideration.

 

Greg.