What is with all the criticism of the fans?

[bklynbrewcrew]

Lately I have read numerous articles talking about how the fans have been too hard on Yost and the team. Melvin has said that he has never seen such criticism on a daily basis of a manager and Mark A has said that the Milwaukee fans are harder on the manager than New York fans. First of all New York fans are far harder on players and managers than Brewers fans will ever be. Secondly why should the fans not criticize Yost when he continues to make boneheaded moves each and every game that are costing us precious games. Attanassio should be thrilled that the fans actually care about this team especially considering that the team is usually hopelessly out of it this time of the year. The fans have been great this year, coming out in droves and have every right to boo the manager when he makes stupid moves. I am sick and tired of hearing yost make snide comments about the fans. The fans have every right to criticize him and the owner has to see the same things we are. Enough is enough already. The fans are not the reason why this team has choked the entire second half, that is the fault of the manager who has overseen second half collapses too many times before.

[mark brouhard is number on]

yost is fine. right now no matter what decision he makes, if the player doesn'y perform he'll be blamed for it. i wish all these so called fans would just shut up and enjoy the pennant race.

[jwill535]

what do you want Melvin and Mark to do, throw Ned under the bus after every bad game, yeah thats good managementhttp://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif

[whynotthebrewers]

continues to make boneheaded moves each and every game that are costing us precious games

 

They all make comments like this because fans who criticize Yost are the fans who always have the answers. I can see not liking a move here and the but it is just constant. After games they have all the answers. Every game should be won, if only we had done it "this" way. Well aren't you the smartest person in the world "after" the game is over. Or they are just the most negative person to begin with and just guess something bad will happen. When it works, it is to the players credit. When it doesn't, we got Yosted and they "told you so" The players are never to blame and we would have 10 more wins without Yost.

 

So I guess this is all up for discussion. Who says all these moves are the wrong decision and they are costing us wins? I guess those with the answers should be on the coaching staff because we would win all these games with them there. It just gets old taking about this seeing fans are going to do this when they get upset but they don't have the anwers and don't know what is going on in the dugout or behind the scenes. That is the truth.

[bsglorydays]

Mark A and Melvin rally around Yost for a couple of reasons:

 

1) They look at things with baseball logic, not with emotion like the fans do. Would you guys have fired Yost in April? The answer is no. Guess what... he is the same manager in September that he was in April. The difference is that the players didn't implode in April.

 

2) They can see what is happening: Yost is making sound baseball moves that aren't working. Putting Turnbow in in the 8th inning with a 3-run lead. Pulling Shouse when Pence is coming up, since Pence hits something like .350/1.025 vs lefties (maybe better), and going with the only righty that had warmed up at that point. Leaving Dave Bush in with a 4-2 lead when he has only thrown 77 pitches. Yet, when these moves backfire, people are ready to can Yost for "stupid moves". How about blaming the player for not getting the job done?

 

I'm not saying that every move Yost makes is a good one. I certainly wouldn't endorse using Aquino yesterday, even though going to a righty was clearly the right move. You're never going to like every move a manager makes. Occasionally, a manager's move will win or lose a game, but those times are few and far between. But, I'm also not naive enough to think the manager has blown the season, when it has clearly been players not getting the job done. If certain guys in the bullpen continually blow leads, it is the GM's job to replace them.

 

I'm not quite sure how to fix right fielders that can't make routine plays, though. 3 games have been lost directly or indirectly in the past 8 days because the right fielder has botched a routine play - Last Sunday, Hart misplayed a pop fly between 1B and RF which resulted in the runner scoring from first base on a ball that went maybe 180 feet, Thursday Hart misplayed a fly ball that was hit directly to him (lost in the sun/lights) which led to a 3-run inning for the Cubs, and Monday Gross was not able to play a liner hit directly to him which turned into a triple and scored 2 runs. I'm sure Yost screwed each of those games up somehow, though.

[jeffy]

I guess Yost, Melvin, Mark A, and maybe some of the players would be happier if the team were just consistently mediocre and therefore no one would expect better from them. Maybe they'd like it better if no one would show up...if so they'll likely finally get what they want by the final week, if the Brewers have their usual road trip performances this month.

 

How about if these dopes would say something like I don't blame the fans for booing. I'm disappointed with the way this team has performed recently too. I can understand that they are not going to make critical comments about Yost's choices in public. But it is disgusting to here this crap about how we should be happy that the games even mean anything at this point in the season.

 

As for the latest and perhaps greatest boneheaded move, I'm pretty sure the fans were booing Yost's decision to put the game in the hands of a AAA pitcher in advance, not second guessing after the fact. When you are in a pennnat race, the purpose of calling up minor leagers is to do things like: give the real bullpen a break when the game is not on the line, allow a pinch running move here and there, and allow you to have a spare emergency catcher so that you can pinch hit or put in a defensive sub late.

 

If Yost, et. al. don't like the fans, they should quit their jobs.

[Samurai Bucky]

It seems almost like it is a lose / lose here. Right now the fans are miffed off at Yost for making bonehead decisions (less those who still on cloud nine). So what happens?

 

1. Yost keeps going as status quo and people jump on his case;

 

2. Yost says something like, "Perhaps I should have done X instead of Y." The fans jump on him saying, "See? He admitted it! He admits he makes bad decisions!"

 

IMHO, bringing Aquino in yesterday was just plain wrong -- even if he would have pitched out of it. Yet, I need to give Ned some slack. What should he do when Cordero blows a save? If he pitches Cordero 4 days in a row, then it is a bad decision. If Cordero blows a save after being rested, that isn't Ned's fault. How about Turnbow, Linebrink, or McClung? How much control does Ned have over them choking?

 

I think there is enough blame to go around. Yost seems to be an easy target because when he makes bad decisions, they really stand out. Perhaps this exercise is doing nothing more than exposing a HUGE weakness -- the bullpen. That's Doug's job to get the horses in the pen.

[Fatter than Joey]

Melvin has said that he has never seen such criticism on a daily basis of a manager

 

He must have forgotten about his tenure in Texas then.

 

what do you want Melvin and Mark to do, throw Ned under the bus after every bad game, yeah thats good management

 

No -- but they don't have to call the fans out either. They can back Yost and empathize with the fans as well.

 

Who says all these moves are the wrong decision and they are costing us wins?

 

Since the all-star break the Brewers are 27th out of 30 teams in wins. Is that what our team is capable of? or perhaps is our team under-performing. Any way you cut it the Brewers have had a miserable 2nd half, and are playing below expectations -- I think it is entirely reasonable for fans to be squawking.

 

When it doesn't, we got Yosted and they "told you so" The players are never to blame and we would have 10 more wins without Yost.

 

"The players are never to blame" -- When you make statements like this you give the impression that you do not thoroughly read this site. A LOT of the players have gotten the "blame" throughout this year, and in all of Yost's tenure. In fact, you may recall, Yost got a free pass early on and his players took almost 100% of the blame back in Yost's early years. Now that the talent of the players has gotten much more profound, I think it is only natural that the spotlight shifts from the players to Yost.

 

I don't blame Yost for 2007 anymore than I blame him for the Brewers losing the WS in 1982 -- Just like I thought he sucked at catching, I think he sucks at managing.

[bsglorydays]

I'm not sure where Yost, DM, MA or anybody else said they didn't like the fans. That's a new one.

 

Jeffyscott, I'm with you in not liking the move to use Aquino, but who would you have used? He was the only guy that had warmed up at that point - you can only have 2 guys warming up in the pen, and Shouse and Aquino were the guys.

 

Let's also not forget that a chain of events led to the use of Aquino. Its not like he was Yost's first choice:

1) McClung brought in in the 7th with a 3-run lead. McClung has pitched well recently and certainly should be able to survive with a cushion like that. He walks a guy, then gives up a single.

2) Linebrink brought in to bail McClung out. Gets the job done.

3) Turnbow comes in in the 8th and quickly implodes. Bases loaded.

4) Shouse comes in to face the lefty, but Cooper PH with Biggio, as expected. Biggio hits SF. 2nd and 3rd. Pence crushes lefties.

5) Aquino comes in.

 

Had the Brewers wanted to use Cordero there instead of Aquino, it would have required a double switch, since the pitcher's spot was due up in the 8th. With Jenkins and Miller hurt, the bench was short, even with the expanded rosters because defensive replacements had been brought in - the right move IMO.

[Brian the Automator]

fire yost know its are only chance!!!!!11

Stop yelling, and please keep on topic. There's already a yay/nay Yost thread, so lets please use that for criticisms specifically regarding Ned Yost.

 

[jeffy]

How is that Aquino was the only guy ready? Why is a minor leager warming up in the 8th with the game on the line?

Option 1 would have been to have Wise warmed up, option 2 would have been to leave Shouse in, option 3 would have been to have Cordero come in for 4 outs. In addition, I think he went too long with a Turnbow that did not have it yesterday. I think Derrik has been reliable and don't understand the hating of him that some fans engage in, but yesterday he clearly was having trouble and I thought he needed to come out one batter sooner.

In addition, even things that work out show that Yost still does not seem put winning the game first. He left an out of gas Sheets in...that could have blown up if he had walked the pitcher. The fact that it worked out does not mean it was the decision most likely to lead to a win. It was nice for Ben to get a shot at a win and all, but now is not the time for such things to have any influence on managerial decisions. Maybe I am wrong and that was not the reasoning, maybe it was a lack of confidence in the bullpen (other than Aquino, apparentlyhttp://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif).

The Sheets and Turnbow decisions I disagreed with, but can accept someone having a different opinion. The Aquino and the recent Mench decisions are just indefensible, imo.

[crewcrazy]

I think that the odds are pretty good that whoever becomes the next manager of the Brewers (be it next year or 5 years down the road) is going to get the same treatment that Yost is getting now. Every fanbase does this with their manager...you'd be hard-pressed to find a fanbase that is completely happy with their manager. There are Cubs fans who think that if Lou Piniella wasn't their manager, they'd be 10 games up in the division. The Brewers could hire the greatest manager who ever lived, and some people would still complain about him when it's the players that screwed up. To be fair, though, Ned doesn't seem to do a very good job of putting his players in favorable situations, but some of those decisions seem forced -- no one disagreed with putting Turnbow in to start the 8th, but he didn't get the job done...Yost had to scramble to try to get someone through the 8th inning, and Pence's L/R splits said that he'd be more likely to get a hit off Shouse than Aquino. That was a no-win situation, IMO.

[endaround]

It only seems that way if you have no idea who your players are. Aquino can't handle pressure. Everyone save Yost seems to know that.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I went to my first Brewer game in 1975, so I consider myself to have been a fan for a long time. I think I can speak for a lot of Brewer fans when I say that we are frustrated. We may be worried that these opportunities won't be there again for awhile. I remember the Brewers being picked by some publications to finish first in 1979, 1980, 1988, 1989, and 1990. We hung around but never seriously challenged in most of those years. In 1983 we had an incredible amount of injuries. Who knows what will happen next year? Maybe Mark Cuban will double the Cubs payroll next year and create a situation where we can't compete with them. Prince may tear up his knee in Spring training. We need to make the most of this situation this year. In the last 3 months we have seen this team blow 16 games after having a 3 run lead. We could blame it on Cordero. However I expected him to have some stuggles because I felt he was overused early in the season. I posted that. I said the same thing last year about Turnbow. I was right there too. It is not just about innings. It is about innings or appearances over a brief period of time. We could say yesterday was Turnbow's fault. However Turmbow has shown that he struggles with command in the second of back-to-back outings. Yet I still feel more comfortable with Derrick trying to get two outs than with Aquino trying to get one. He has demonstrated a history of meltdowns when used in these situations. Is that his fault? Yes. But shouldn't we know that? Often times in these meltdowns we have seen the match-ups consistently skewed in the favor of the opposition. They change pitchers, we don't pinch-hit when stats indicate we should. They pinch-hit, we don't change pitchers when stats indicate that we should. Many times in these opposition rallies we see the Brewers squander many chances to tack on runs, usually because they change pitchers and take advantage of the match-ups. Usually in the meltdowns the other teams inch closer because we don't want to take a pitcher out due to the fact that his turn to bat is coming up. We lost a game to the Cubs earlier this year after being up 5-0 when they never had a pitcher bat. It was as if they used a DH. Last week they did a similar thing to us in a blow-out. We have never played like that. It is like their manager is trying harder to win than ours.

Those and many other reasons are why we are frustrated with our manager.

[sheethead]

For all those arguing that Yost made the best available decision in bringing in Aquino and cite splits as the reason why, then why was it okay for Yost to let Mench bat on 8/30 with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth when he had Jenkins and Gross on the bench available? Ah yes, cause that game was managed based on the "flow of the game" while the game yesterday was managed based on splits. There is no consistancy with his managing style, period. Please stop defending Ned Yost, he does not deserve it anymore.

[Brian the Automator]

I'm going to re-iterate one last time. Please leave conversation relating to in-game decisions in the in-game threads, and Yost conversation to the Yost thread.

 

Thanks....

[RU Rah Rah]

I noticed the "Why are the fans so mean?" undertone in the long JS article on Mark A. today, and, obviously, Ned has really whined about it, ad nauseam, during the team's skid over the past two months. It bugs me because I just don't think the fans have been overly unfair. The team has basically stunk for the past two months, and it has come close to frittering away its first playoff berth in a quarter-century. Given those circumstances, I think the grumbling has been pretty moderate, especially when you compare it to the carping that regularly happens in other cities. (I mean, what do you think would happen if this was Philadelphia? Ned would have been tarred and feathered -- or worse -- by now.)

[tomwopat]

It's hard to have the knee-jerk reaction that I'm the customer, and the customer is always right. It's also easy for me to grandstand with something like "If Ned Yost is not fired I will not renew my season tickets."

[bklynbrewcrew]

Its enough with the complaining from Yost about the fans. The fans would love Yost if he didnt consistently screw things up. For him to blame the fans shows that he is too thinskinned to be a major league manager. If he thinks its bad here he should try managing in philly or New York. He cant handle the pressure so he has to blame the fans for his shortcomings.

[JohnBriggs12]

Mark Attanasio is a Pollyanna. Plain and simple.

 

Doug Melvin's future is tied into Yost because Yost is "his guy".

 

There are no managers being scrutinized on a daily basis like Yost for one simple reason: There are no managers that continue to be befuddled on an almost daily basis like Yost does in managing a game.

 

I've lost all hope in a change this year, so I've just decided to hope against hope that talent will supercede the deficiency in leadership and they will somehow sneak in. Meanwhile, at least now there is football to distract me somewhat.

[mark brouhard is number on]

come on board with me and just enjoy the first seaon in many years that we are in a pennant race during football season. trust me if you can do that it makes watching the games much more fun.

[pitchleague]

"what is with all the criticism of the fans?" is the question and here is my answer (not neccessarily the correct answer):

 

The Brewers haven't been to the playoffs in 25 years and haven't really come close to making it in 15 years. You could argue about a few years in the late 90s but, really, they weren't close. Now, the team is poised to make a move and the team chalks up some unbelievable losses despite having them theoretically won. That would frustrate any fan, to be sure. But with the Brewers having their chance (maybe their only chance--we know the future looks good but ANYTHING can happen) to make a run it just becomes more and more critical as we move into September to be winning games and giving the team the best chance to win.

 

We all know about yesterday's questionable moves. I hope that with Mark A. in the stands to see what developed and to hear how frustrated the fans are with the team taking another loss when they should have won, he will understand a bit more.

 

Fifteen years without coming close to the playoffs=frustration.

A team that looks like it will make it sixteen years= double secret frustration

 

I hope to goodness graciousness that we'll stay in it all the way to the end of the month (and I really think they will). But the fans have the right to grumble when the team flushes away another win that gets us closer to that goal. Players are human and I know they're going to make mistakes, but still . . . .

[homer]

I think Yost makes some bad decisions, but he's not out there tripping over his feet in right field or walking leadoff guys or committing passed balls. He made one bad decision the other day, but that particular game should have never gotten to that point.

 

I think people just have their undies in a bunch that the team is in a bad division and continues to shoot itself in the foot on the field.

[Nearsighted Views]

What re the fans supposed to do when the team continually blow big leads late in games? Start the wave. Yell, "Get em next time, partner!" Booing is the only way fans can say, "Hey-- I think you're better than this." This whiny, it hurts our feelings attitude is getting really old. When did athletes become such pirmadonnas?

 

The thing that surprises me the most, though, is that the fans booed louldly when Ned popped out to pull Shouse. Booing when something bad on the field happens is one thing but booing AT A MOVE. I've never seen that and it spoke volumes to me.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yost isn't just receiving criticism from fans locally. He's getting it nationally too as pundits actually pay attention to what's going on with this team. I believe Jayson Stark and Keith Law have been guys that have toasted Yost primarily for his bullpen management.

 

As pundits continue to watch this team, there will be more national ridicule of Yost.