Rebuilding for 2008?

[brewcrewnation]

When Ned get fired and also there will be a rather large turnover of players next season, does this mean we are going to have to rebuild for next season. We are going to need a new manager, new catcher, leftfield, at least 2 new starting pitchers, a closer and set up man, does this qualify as rebuilding?

 

 

(added tag; unambigufied thread title --1992)

[Ennder]

Huh?

 

Turnbow will be on the team so setup man or even closer(yuck) is filled. None of our SP's are walking and we'll have gallardo and parra in the starting mix. Estrada isn't going anywhere either so not sure about the new C.

 

If getting a RP or two and a LF is rebuilding then yeah we are rebuilding.

 

Cordero, Linebrink, Miller and Graffanino are the only 4 players we are losing for sure. I imagine we pass on Jenkins and Koskies options too. There is no rebuilding there.

[crewcrazy]

Too many key players are still under (cheap) contracts for next season. Estrada's not going anywhere, as much as we'd like him to...as much as we hate his approach, isn't he pretty cheap considering he's over league average production for catchers? Turnbow's locked into a contract for next year, so he'll be back. I think there's a fair chance the at least attempt to re-sign Linebrink. Left field will probably be covered by Gabe Gross and a cheap lefty killer next year to replace Menchkins (while Mench does his job well, he gets paid way too much to do it). Rotation spots vacated by Vargas and maybe Capuano if you can find a taker in a trade this season will be taken care of in-house.

 

I do worry, though, that firing Yost and replacing him with another guy will lead to a "transition year" where the Brewers just tread water while "getting used to" their new manager. Considering how quickly Hardy-Braun-Fielder are going to get expensive, I'd rather not waste a year transitioning from one manager to another. If you're going to fire Yost, you better be damn sure he's going to have more impact on this team than Yost already does, otherwise 2008 is going to end up being a wasted year.

[JohnBriggs12]

"None of our SP's are walking"

 

That's debatable as is Cordero's situation. He could be back. Capuano and Vargas are no locks to be around next year, whether they're non tendered or traded, I can't see either with even a tentative rotation spot. At best they go to SP as longshot (7-8th options) starters or bullpen arms.

 

That being said, I don't see a huge turnover in personel either. I think Jenkins stays, because with the collapse of Capuano and Vargas, I don't see a trading chip good enough to secure his replacement. If Jenkins does go, it will be to free cash to extend Sheets or sign Cordero, then Gross takes over his platoon spot.

[T B0NE 10]

our rotation is a mess........we gotta get rid of Suppan and Capuano, Bush is on the line between staying and going. Sheets and Gallardo, and Villanueva look to be in the rotation. I see Parra in there too.

[Ennder]

That's debatable as is Cordero's situation. He could be back. Capuano and Vargas are no locks to be around next year, whether they're non tendered or traded, I can't see either with even a tentative rotation spot. At best they go to SP as longshot (7-8th options) starters or bullpen arms.

 

Capuano will either start or be in the bullpen next year unless they find a trade for him. There is no way they non tender a guy who had 2.5 "good" years and then a "bad" year. Vargas I hope to see in the bullpen though.

 

Sheets

Bush

Suppan

Gallardo

Villaneuva

Parra

Capuano

 

We will not need to pick up a starting pitcher next year. People are putting way too much stock into one seasons ERA. Capuano's stats are almost identical to 2004/2005, he's pitched much worse since the injury but there is no reason to assume he'll continue to next season. Bush has been as good as he was last year so why now would we give up on him?

[RyDogg66]

our rotation is a mess........we gotta get rid of Suppan and Capuano, Bush is on the line between staying and going. Sheets and Gallardo, and Villanueva look to be in the rotation. I see Parra in there too.

How do you suppose we get rid of Suppan? The rotation next year is almost set in stone. Here is what I would do with it.

1. Sheets

2. Gallardo

3. Bush

4. Suppan

5. Villanueva

6. Parra

7. Journeyman Long reliever (like Burba was)

 

Trade Capuano for a power hitting leftfielder. With the way HRs have fallen off this past year, I dont know that a "power hitting" left fielder looks like, but we need one. The other thing we could do is move Hall to LF and sign Andruw Jones. But we dont have 150 million to send over the Andruw, and the Yankees do, so scrap that. Id sign Bobby Abreu if he is on the market. We are desperate for guys who get on base.

 

we need to upgrade the defense and OBP.

 

We can also trade Vargas and Weeks for an upgrade somewhere, maybe 2b, maybe the outfield.

[rluzinski]

I think Ennder has the rotation situation spot on. Gotta get rid of Suppan? How? Bush is no where near going and Cappy won't be going anywhere either, unless Melvin can trade him for something of value.

 

The Brewers are about as far away from rebuilding as a franchise can get. They'll be some bullpen changeover as usual and there will be a new starting LFer. Heck, Gross could very well be the LH side of a platoon there.

 

I agree with Rydogg mostly but trade Weeks and Vargas to upgrade 2B? It's possible that Weeks never gets close to his potential but even if he's a .775 OPS guy with a good OBP and average defense, that's not bad at 2B at all and you'll be hard pressed to improve on that in the open market. And moving Hall to the corner spot will make him virtually worthless.

[rotoherb]

I doubt that there will be a large turnover of players, but Melvin will need to figure out what Sheets wants and decide if it's doable. If he feels that there is no chance to resign Sheets then he may trade him and get as much as possible. He knows he can get more in a trade during the offseason than at the trade deadline. Plus, there's no guarantee that Sheets will be healthy at the trade deadline. Trading Sheets wouldn't exactly constitute "rebuilding", but it's likely the players he got in return would help more in future years than in 2008.

[RyDogg66]

This offseason is the perfect time to extend Sheets. We could get him for a discount, and I dounbt he'd want to roll the dice on staying healthy the entire 2008 season to get a big contract. If he gets hurt again in 2008 and goes out as a FA, he could get lowballed. Im thinking 5 years 60 million as a starting point, making sure to point out what we got out of him from our last contract....

[naivin]

This season was a good test for Yost, and it appears that he will not be receiving a passing grade. Not that they needed to make the playoffs necessarily, but what appears to be another season well below .500 probably will seal his fate. Next year on the other hand will bring judgement day for Doug Melvin. He has this offseason to make this team better or it will be pretty obvious that he is a guy who is capable or building to a certain point, but perhaps not capable of taking the last couple steps. Some rather ovious miscalculations were made, particularly in the area of pitching and defense. Youth is certainly part of it, and a reason Melvin deserves more time (perhaps the same could be said for Yost) but its not all of it, and next year, that excuse simply won't fly anymore.

[Invader3K]

5 years/$60 million for Ben Sheets? Do people seriously want to lock him up for that long? I just don't get it, based on his track record with the team. I'd try and see if he'd go for a two or three year extension, with dollars similar to what he's getting now. Anything beyond that, and I'm pretty uncomfortable...and I'm usually in the camp that says "It's not my money to spend."

[rluzinski]

I'd try and see if he'd go for a two or three year extension, with dollars similar to what he's getting now.

 

Whether you think it's fair or not, that wouldn't even be worth the phone call. The fact is, even if Sheets averages 150 IP for the rest of his career, that's worth a contract of 4-5 years at $10 mil, starting.

[Menotti80]

I dont understand why we need a new catcher now. I think that all may stem from people thinking Estrada was going to come in and produce McCann or Martin type numbers. Look, I understand that he swings at 95% of the first picthes he sees. And many of the times its a groundout or a pop-up. But most other catchers in the league dont produce as well as Johnny does, they just strike out, ground out or pop up in 5 pitches instead of one or two. And on some of those first pitches, he is hitting sharp singles and some doubles.

Dont get me wrong, Estrada's plate discipline can be very frustrating as well as his inability to throw out runners. But if you look at catchers who would come in and hands down produce significantly better than Johnny, there is no chance we are getting any of them.

My point is that Estrada is still in the better half of the catchers in the NL. He is a switch hitter, isnt terrible with the bat, and he is very durable. Look at how many times a game that dude gets jacked in the mask, arms, feet, legs, dingleberries, etc by foul balls every day, and he is never injured.

 

Bottom line: If he improves his plate discipline for next year and throw out a few more runners, I am happy with Estrada as our catcher in '08.

 

good God it could be much worse...

[rotoherb]

Suppan's contract was conveniently structured to keep his salary below Sheets' salary for 07/08 and then it jumps up to $12.5 million for the last two seasons. I'm guessing that Sheets will want at least as much as Suppan, if not more, per season for at least four years. I would certainly hope that Melvin had a plan when he set up Suppan's contract knowing that Sheets was slated to be a free agent after the 08 season. He's either already decided that Sheets will go or he's already planning on offering Sheets $13-$15 million per year in an extension.

[brewcrewnation]

I thought Estrada was a free agent after this season. We do need to let Cappy, Vargas, and Limebrink plus others go or will be have the same thing happen again. If Yost wasn't the manager this season, would the Brewers have the same record as they do?

[Brian the Automator]

When Ned get fired and also there will be a rather large turnover of players next season, does this mean we are going to have to rebuild for next season. We are going to need a new manager, new catcher, leftfield, at least 2 new starting pitchers, a closer and set up man, does this qualify as rebuilding?

Rebuilding is when you jettison all of your salary and don't replace it. I can't fathom the Brewers doing that this offseason. They're still in a very good position to win by supplementing their core, young players with free agents or creative trades.

 

[colbyjack]

Estrada has one more year of arby left, so unless the team non-tenders him, which I wouldn't expect, I'm sure he'll be back for next year, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a big season in his walk year. I would like to see Miller re-signed.

 

I also would not let Capuano go. I also wouldn't count on him for '08, but I don't think you could get much for him in return this offseason.

 

And I agree with JohnBriggs in that I don't think it is a lock that Geoff Jenkins moves on. He's not worth the money of his option ($9 M), but again, I wouldn't be surprised to see the team exercise that option. I would prefer to see the organization pursue a better on-base option for the OF, such as Abreu as RyDogg suggested.

 

Plus, we don't know if the team will pursue one of either Cordero or Linebrink.

 

Which of course means next year's team will resemble this year's team quite a bit, and that is somewhat expected since this team is being built for much more than this year and next.

[MoneyballMan]

This offseason is the perfect time to extend Sheets. We could get him for a discount, and I dounbt he'd want to roll the dice on staying healthy the entire 2008 season to get a big contract. If he gets hurt again in 2008 and goes out as a FA, he could get lowballed. Im thinking 5 years 60 million as a starting point, making sure to point out what we got out of him from our last contract....

 

That's a great point that I hadn't really considered. It will be the perfect time (and possibly the only way) for us to extend him.

[jhpc12]

Do we spend now on Starting pitching. Extend or resign Sheets, Suppan & Bush are tied up, do we trade Capuano. All of these questions have to be answered or at least asked.

 

What about position players. When do we stop getting them at league min. When do JJ, Rickey, Corey, and Prince get to arbutrate. This year, next year or when, Do we try to get some or all under some type of contract before then? Will they even sign or do they hold out through arbutration and look for a 4-6 year deal in the 30 to 40 million dollar range.

 

Everyone knows that this is something the Brewers in the past have not been able to do, but of course we have not had this many players coming of age at the sametime before.

 

And with all that said I can't see Prince being a Brewer much longer. He is going to demand Soriano type money 12-15 million a year at least.

 

Don't get me wrong I hope we keep them all, but 2 or 3 years down the line your looking at adding roughly 40 to 45 million to your yearly payroll (I included Braun). That is going to probably give us a payroll in the neighborhood of around 85 to 90 million. And I can't see that happening So what do we do?

[MoneyballMan]

When Ned get fired and also there will be a rather large turnover of players next season, does this mean we are going to have to rebuild for next season. We are going to need a new manager, new catcher, leftfield, at least 2 new starting pitchers, a closer and set up man, does this qualify as rebuilding?

Rebuilding is when you jettison all of your salary and don't replace it. I can't fathom the Brewers doing that this offseason. They're still in a very good position to win by supplementing their core, young players with free agents or creative trades.

 

 

Completely agree - many of the pieces are in place (and relatively cheap for the next few years). And I think realistically, 2008 was the target "go for it" year anyhow. With our quick start this year, everyone got excited and all of a sudden expected a championship this year. I'm trying to tell myself that the 24-10 start demonstrated the huge potential of this team and that youth/inexperience just caught up to us this year. This year may be disappointing due to the great position we were in, but I doubt anyone (MA/DM) will panic and tear apart a team with tons of talent and potential.

[Klements Bratwurst]

Regarding Capuano, he has had 2.5 years of good numbers before this terrible year. With that said, Jason Marquis fetched 21 million over 3 years after posting his WORST season ever in 2006 with a 6+ ERA. Because of the shallow depths of adequate MLB starting pitching, Capuano still has decent trade potential, if not he warrants a chance at a spot as the #5 Starter next year. Plus if he comes back next year (ala Marquis) that can only be a plus.

 

So to recap, Capuano is decent trade bait or another option for the backend of the rotation in 2008.

 

The team will not be rebuilding. Just needs some tinkering around the edges, but adding some relief help and a solid, veteran, righthanded, thumping corner outfielder might just do the trick.

 

What we need to do now is for Melvin to make a Carlos Lee like trade (if possible) and bring in a "arby" stud bat that is one or two years from becoming a free agent, to give us time to fill the corner spot until some more help comes from the minors in Laporta or Cain, et. al.

[pogokat]

Capuano will have a great deal of value...and i think vargass will as well...one of those two will probably be tradeed...other than that, i doubt will seee any real turnover at all...i think jenkins will be back. At this point, i'm pretty sure the brewers like jenks and he'll be around next year. Every night I go to bed and pray that Kevin mench will retire so thaat he's gone from the lineup, but he will defeinitely be gone next year.

 

One buy low OBP candidate is Brian Giles...along with Abreu, if the crew parts ways with jenkins...other thaan that, i'm not sure theey team can really do better than jenks out there...

 

I'm sure they'll bring in some junk to compete witth the bottom of the bbullpen and roster, but i doubt it will have a signifigant impact on the team

 

This team is what it is...there won't be any budget busting moves...they could surprisse by dealing one of the young core guys, but i don't think that will happen until the guys are arby eligible...

[Ennder]

I'd love to seee an Abreu type guy on this team, anyone with a history of strong OBP skills would be a godsend.

[brettac1]

Whatever they do, I just hope it doesn't involve throwing boatloads of money at relief pitchers. That is all I ask.