So why did we need Linebrink?

[Hammer715]

Is this turning out to be the worst deal that DM has done is his time with the Brewers? I hate to say but now I miss the Wise, TB, and Coco finish. Why are we changing that?

 

 

 

(added tags --1992)

[pretendastronaut]

Everyone knew we needed/wanted bullpen help down the stretch. Linebrick hasn't worked out the best, but asking why we needed him is a rather silly question.

[whynotthebrewers]

Just stop already. When turnbow struggles people want to get rid of him. Now a guy has a couple of bad games and we call it the worst deal ever. And the best part of this is that you miss Wise. I guess you are one that only remembers the last few games and is upset about something new everyday.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I have no problem with the concept of getting Linebrink but there was a reason that SD traded him and that was the fact that he was pitching horribly. I also hate the fact that we gave up 3 young arms to get him. I hope he doesnt return next season and we at least get two draft picks.

[JJHardy7]

I'm guessing we don't get the 3 picks and we did give up Inman. I didn't like the deal when it happened and I still don't. I don't think the bullpen has been nearly as bad as the starting pitchers, but there's not much we can do about the deal now, but we can try to somehow win the next two games and make this interesting.

 

Also, I know there are some Sheets love/hate around here. If he's a #1 pitcher, it's time to show it.

[Bring Back the Stein]

I don't know why a kvetched when Linebrink stayed with baby's momma. Turns out, that was his best week as a Brewer. There's a very good reason the 'Dres were willing to part with that mutt.

[JohnBriggs12]

"Now a guy has a couple of bad games and we call it the worst deal ever".

 

That's because Linebrink was brought in to provide two months of solid late inning relief. Period. One month gone, and he's not done that. Two solid pitching prospects for this? It's a bad deal even if he pitches well in September. They didn't give up what they did for one bad month and one good month. If he's as bad in September as he's been in August, it might be the worst deal ever.

[rluzinski]

I certainly didn't like the deal but worst ever? Come on. Not even close.

[JohnBriggs12]

"not even close".

 

It might turn out to be the worst ever, if by chance both Inman and Garrison turn into good major league pitchers. Of course we won't know that for 4-5 years.

 

Think Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz only instead of Alexander going 9-0 for Detroit in 87, he goes 2-7. Heck, even Larry Andersen pitched well for the Red Sox after they traded Bagwell to get him in a deal often cited as an historically bad deal.

 

By the way has anyone noticed Grant Balfour has allowed 1 earned run in 8 1/3 innings this month with 11 K's?

[Fatter than Joey]

Linebrick hasn't worked out the best, but asking why we needed him is a rather silly question.

 

No -- It's a reasonable question, not silly at all for a couple of reasons.

 

1.) 12/13th pitcher. Linebrink was in essence an upgrade of our 12th pitcher, Chris Spurling. As we all know in MLB, there are a non-trivial number of games in a season where you either blow someone out, or you get blown out. This is what your #12 pitcher is for -- If you are losing 10-2 in the 3rd -- you can have a pitcher go 5IP and give up 4ER -- I think we all agree that the Brewers did not need to get Linebrink to do mop-up duty that Spurling should have been doing. Now, if you want to counter my argument, with the claim that Ned cannot manage a 13 man or 12 man bullpen correctly, and that Yost needs to have 8 prototypical setup men to be successful, I would concede that point.

 

2.) SP -- Even if Linebrink was pitching well, our starting pitching still remains our biggest problem. It may have been better to get another starter, or perhaps a LR pitcher like the one we gave up in Dessens (who is actually pitching well in COL). I am not advocating or claiming that Dessens is better than Linebrink, but rather, if you have big holes in your rotation, it doesn't make much sense to patch up your BP, unless it is long-relief.

 

3.) Joe Thatcher -- You have to wonder why a team like SD, in a pennant and WC race would be willing to trade a great set-up man and replace him with Joe Thatcher. The answer of course is that they didn't trade a great set-up man, they traded Scott Linebrink, who has seen better days. I am guess that DM over-valued Linebrink just a tad. It seems to me that the Pads could care less about Inman, and are thrilled to have replaced Linebrink with Thatcher. If you look at Linebrink's gamelog -- you can see right about around the end of June he really has not performed well.

 

4.) Draft Pick(s) -- I understand that the draft picks are a nice little bonus -- If Linebrink keeps pitching like he has in July and August -- we will probably get 1 pick instead of 2. However, if DM made this trade (I dont think he did) strictly to gather up draftpicks it shows you where his head is at, and it isn't 2007.

 

Thatcher has been better than Linebrink so far (Linebrink has given up runs in 4 out of his last 5 appearances, and has gotten 3 losses). Are those losses+Thatcher/Inman worth the draft pick(s)? That is a question one needs to ponder.

 

Now a guy has a couple of bad games and we call it the worst deal ever.

 

77 -- He has given up runs in 4 of his last 5 appearances and has gotten 3 losses -- I wouldn't say that it is the worst deal ever, but it is hardly paying us dividends. Linebrink has cost us games (in a short amount of time) in a pennant race. Certainly there have been other factors in our losses, but Linebrink has not had an overall positive impact, and at the end of the day -- I don't think that draft pick will be worth the losses in 2007 (as well as losing Thatcher/Inman)

[Ennder]

if by chance both Inman and Garrison turn into good major league pitchers. Of course we won't know that for 4-5 years.

 

We'll get at least one player when Linebrink leaves too so you ahve to include him in it.

[Hammer715]

I didnt mean worst deal in all of basebal just for Melvin. I believe he was hoping for linebrink as to what happened with Coco last year. Unfortunatley it is not working out any where near that. He tried this and it is failing, it was a very bad deal for the brewers.

[MBHA]

By the way has anyone noticed Grant Balfour has allowed 1 earned run in 8 1/3 innings this month with 11 K's?

It's much easier to pitch for the "out of the race in May Devil Rays" in August/September than in the middle of a division race in July/August.

[jhart05]

I don't know, I thought he as getting squeezed a little with the strike zone, and a couple of those hits were good pitches.

 

Just one off the top of my head, was the Lee hit. I seem to recall that pitch being knee high or lower on the outside corner. That's a good pitch anyday.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. For most of that 7th inning I had my face in my hands.

[Fatter than Joey]

It's much easier to pitch for the "out of the race in May Devil Rays" in August/September than in the middle of a division race in July/August.

 

I don't think this is the case -- esp. if you are facing teams like BOS and NYY, CLE etc...

[Ennder]

He has 6 BB's in the 8 1/3 IP so its not like he's really pitched well, ERA just isn't a useful stat over such a small sample.

[Roscoe Chill]

The team needed Scott Linebrink because Doug Melvin said himself that he'd been after him for two years...he didn't take notice that over that two year span, Linebrink turned in to a pitcher that wasn't worth the package that was given up for him, and certainly not the set up man that he once was. Like someone pointed out, why in the world would San Diego part with him in the middle of a playoff race?

[Fatter than Joey]

He has 6 BB's in the 8 1/3 IP so its not like he's really pitched well, ERA just isn't a useful stat over such a small sample.

 

He has a 1.32 WHIP 11Ks in 8.1 IP -- While it is not dominant or anything -- I'd take those 8.1 IP over 8.1 from most of the Brewers in the pen.

 

Regardless of whether you think ERA is or is not useful, Balfour has done pretty decent since getting DFA'd by the Brewers.

 

He really got mishandled here in Milw.

[MBHA]

It's much easier to pitch for the "out of the race in May Devil Rays" in August/September than in the middle of a division race in July/August.

 

I don't think this is the case -- esp. if you are facing teams like BOS and NYY, CLE etc...

Well, in the appearances referenced he faced TOR, BAL, DET, TEX (7K's) BOS (1 Run), OAK, CHW. Only 2 teams in contention , and 3 with winning records.

[Fatter than Joey]

I still don't see how pitching for the DRays is "easier" -- certainly pitching against them would be, not for them though

[trwi7]

He really got mishandled here in Milw.

 

Another reason to fire Ned.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif

[brettac1]

Like someone pointed out, why in the world would San Diego part with him in the middle of a playoff race?

Thank you. This was pointed out in the actual thread for the trade by several people. Of course, this led to those of use who hated the trade being told that we care too much about minor league baseball. Seriously, read that thread in retrospect. It's pretty hillarious - especially when it is proclaimed that the Brewers now have the BEST bullpen in baseball.

 

Even if Inman doesn't pan out, the Padres win this deal because they didn't have Scott Linebrink pitching high-leverage innings for them down the stretch.

 

 

(edit: linked "actual thread for the trade" --1992)

[1992casey]

Linebrick hasn't worked out the best, but asking why we needed him is a rather silly question.

---

No -- It's a reasonable question, not silly at all...

Yes, it's a reasonable question. To have avoided the borderline condescension, it would have been more appropriate to say something like, "Linebrick hasn't worked out the best, but I think the need for bullpen help was pretty apparent."

[gregmag]

I hated the deal at the time, and like Brett, I was kind of stunned by the vitriol of some people who couldn't imagine why anyone wouldn't love it. Other people, of course, made some very reasonable arguments for the trade, and who knows -- there's still time for Linebrink to salvage his tenure here. That said, his failings so far as a Brewer are exactly what we skeptics predicted, given his decline over the past season and a half (excellent point, NDOG, about how DM appears to have had the rose-colored glasses on) and his move to a tougher HR park. We dealt a top-50 prospect in all of MLB, another youngster with some upside, and a MLB-ready reliever for -- based on the unsurprising results so far -- less than nothing. Unless you think pitching prospects are utterly worthless, even as trade bait for something else, that's a terrible trade.

 

I still think DM's worst trade by far -- maybe his only truly awful trade of any consequence before Linebrink, given that I can't really quarrel with the results of Lee for Cordero/Mench -- was Javier Valentin for whatever scrub OF we got for him. No one talks much about that one now, but the catching situation has caused us no end of problems in the ensuing years. The Linebrink trade is a solid #2 for me, and it will be an easy #1 if any one of the three pitchers we tossed away has a career.

 

Greg.

[1992casey]

The scrub we got for Javier Valentin was Jason Conti. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif