Phil Garner and Tim Purpura fired in Houston (Merged: Astros to name Cooper Permanent Manager)

[sheethead]

Garner was a good manager when Houston made the playoffs with him but now he obviously forgot how to manage. And the wheels keep on turning.

 

I like the tone, and to offer a little more... at least Scrap Iron did know how to manage at one point in time. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/grin.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

Garner was a good manager when Houston made the playoffs with him but now he obviously forgot how to manage. And the wheels keep on turning.

People can do good jobs and bad jobs, regardless of their skill levels.

 

Musicians make bad albums and good albums, Actors have good performances and bad performances.

 

Both you and I know he didn't forget to manage, and I realize that you are being silly -- however that doesn't at all mean that he has done as good a job this year as he has in years past.

 

It is possible for good managers to perform poorly and get fired.

[Invader3K]

Managers are hired to get fired anyway. I doubt Phil Garner is too emotionally traumatized over this.

[endaround]

Houston is in a bad place. Their "demanding" owner has hamstrung the team with long term contracts on aging players again. The Astros have four good players in Lee, Oswalt, Berkman, and Pence. Thats it Berkman and Lee are both 31 and have years left on their contracts during the decline phase. Berkman has a no trade clause that probably would make the recvieving team pick up his $15 million option in 2011. Basically the Astros don't have enough talent to win, the talent they do have is too old to be valuable when they get in new blood save for Pence, and their contracts are killers. I have no clue what they are going to do.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I applaud McClane for making a move. Mark Attanassio should do the right thing and fire Yost now.

[1992casey]

Let's keep the Yost discussion in the Yay or Nay thread.

 

end, Lee has a no-trade clause, too.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Wouldn't his biggest trade be Jennings for Taveras, Buckolz and Hirsch. That trade more than anything sealed Pupura's fate.

 

Back to Garner, wasn't the Astros MO under scrap iron to start slow and come on fast in the second half? I think then what the brewers need to do is to come up with the first ever managerial platoon. Yost manages the brewers for the first half of the season, until the all star break, and then Garner manages in the second half.

[Ennder]

Wouldn't his biggest trade be Jennings for Taveras, Buckolz and Hirsch. That trade more than anything sealed Pupura's fate

 

Its a hard trade to judge since Jennings got hurt. I still think he's the best player in that list when healthy.

[Team Canada]

That's because their owner demands results, not excuses and they have the playoff and World Series appearances to attest to the success of his methods.

 

Yes, and the reason they won earlier and are losing now is surely because Garner has lost his ability to manage.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Wouldn't his biggest trade be Jennings for Taveras, Buckolz and Hirsch. That trade more than anything sealed Pupura's fate

 

Its a hard trade to judge since Jennings got hurt. I still think he's the best player in that list when healthy.

 

Yeah, but his health is part of the equation. Plus they weren't able to sign him, so they traded away some decent young cheap players for 1 year of Jennings and maybe some draft picks. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

 

Also Hirsh could be just as good as Jennings.

[brettac1]

I wouldn't want that GM job, McClain is so meddlesome. He's the idiot who strapped these two with Biggio and to a lesser extent Ausmus (like end pointed out, pretty much). That's why Hunsicker bailed on that job, he's a good GM and he knew what was going to happen. I thought Purpura was for the most part a pretty smart guy before he got the job, and I don't think he got a heck of a lot of time to prove his ability.

[davego]

I always liked Phil when he was here. For the most part he played with a short deck, players seemed to respect him (for the most part). He didn't make excuses in the paper about the budget and seemed to work really hard during some black time for the 'Crew. When get got the Axe it was more to 'do something' then anything he did. He certainly was a stronger leader then what replaced him. To be honest, I don't think there is much real-world difference between Phil and Ned (save the 'stach).

[Phenomenal Smith]

Several points

 

1. McLane (and that's the spelling) is a meddlesome owner. Not as bad as some, and he's generally put a good product on the field. Before this season the Astros had the 4th best winning percentage in baseball since 1992.

2. The decision to play Biggio so much came from McLane.

3. The farm system is depleted because of 10 years of bad drafts.

4. The Jennings trade was an act of desperation after Pettitte went to NYC. I didn't think it was a bad trade at the time, but apparently the Astros allowed the Rockies to snooker them on Jennings' health. Jennings pitched at Baylor and McLane is a Baylor alum.

5. Garner platoons way too much.

6. The Astros have about 45 mil a year wrapped up in just 3 players. McLane is not a cheap owner, but he's not going to go out and mimic the Yankees or the Red Sox. With a barren farm system, getting cheap talent is going to be difficult and having so much salary invested in 3 players is gonna make it difficult for the next GM to get talent.

 

Bottom line - while neither Purpura or Garner did a good job, it's hard to figure out how much flexibility McLane gave them.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"McLane must have had some time to think about what it's going to be like shelling out big-money to El Caballo when his 'range' only covers balls hit from the right side of the Crawford Boxes to the LF foul pole "

 

Yeah, TLB, I'm sure Carlos Lee's defensive range is the big reason why they failed this season. His .307 batting average, his 13th-ranked slugging %, his 102 RBI's? Meaningless.

 

The dramatic failure of newly-acquired starting pitchers Jason Jennings and Woody Williams, the defections of Roger Clemens and his cabana boy, Andy Pettitte, the sharp declines of formerly up-n-coming Morgan Ensberg, Jason Lane and Luke Scott, the below-average performance of Lance Berkman, the further implosions of Brad Lidge (and overreaction to Lidge's limited run of success, when Purpura traded away Dan Wheeler)...all had nothing to do with Purpura and Ol' Scrap Iron's firings.

 

Must be Carlos Lee's range.

 

Migod...

[TooLiveBrew]

Yikes! I was making reference to the future, but wow. Thanks for chopping me up there totally unneccesarily. I never said, "Carlos Lee's range in the OF in 2007 is the reason the Astros stink & now both Mgr. & GM are gone." I just made an off-the-cuff comment about what I think is an over-priced contract - just perhaps not for this year. I don't understand why you had to go on the attack there, but I can't say that, in taking my post to mean what you did, I'd have reacted differently. We can still play nice.

 

http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

 

EDIT: Try this wording: "...when his range will slip to only being able to cover..." Don't see how that got past so many posts without someone else taking your meaning if it was so unclear, but I'll admit I didn't type exactly what I was trying to say. As mentioned, that contract really pushed the 'Stros past the point of being able to go out and get another big FA, and given their depleted farm system, it looks like that'd be what it'd take to field a better team in '08

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"I never said, "Carlos Lee's range in the OF in 2007 is the reason the Astros stink & now both Mgr. & GM are gone." I just made an off-the-cuff comment about what I think is an over-priced contract -"

 

TLB:

 

Perhaps not, but you seemed to waste no time in bringing it up in the 2nd line of your post.

 

Again, Lee's signing is one of the BEST things to pan out for that franchise this year. Him and Hunter Pence.

 

When I see that the GM and coach are fired, I don't jump on the best player they have, and therefore look for the one area of his game that's not top-notch, and focus on that. It's like looking at the Dodgers when they whacked Fred Claire and Jim Tracy after 2005, and bringing up Jeff Kent's lack of stolen bases right away.

 

Let's be honest with one another TLB, (and play nice! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ), anything Astro-related is a convenient chance to bash Lee. Regardless of whether it was germane to the issue, you took your shot, and that's that.

 

Consider it less of a personal attack, and more of an attack toward the general anti-Lee mindset that's surprisingly still pretty vocal here... *sigh*

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, regardless of what you assume, I harbor no ill will toward Carlos, nor did I take the time to make sure to single him out - it was just a spontaneous comment. I've never been one to bash him, I just think the prospect of paying a guy that much money when he's going to be over 34, and can't DH, was a bad decision. It's really the only thing I could think of as a 'bad decision' that I knew of Purpura making (largely due to the fact that I know squat about the Astros, and Lee's a former Brewer).

 

Yes, quite blatantly obviously, Lee has been a bright spot for them this year. My comment was specifically referring to one element of his game (or lack thereof) that is going to be atrocious by the time he's in the last few years of that contract. Otherwise, I struggle to find anything wrong with that signing, as El Caballo is a proven, relatively steady, producer. I had no intent of singling out Lee for 2007 - it was nowhere on my mind when I posted - just to light-heartedly speculate on something that I could imagine McLane being upset about, since it doesn't seem to the outsider that Purpura was bad in any real way - just that he's a guy who got thrown under the bus.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"I had no intent of singling out Lee for 2007 - it was nowhere on my mind when I posted - just to light-heartedly speculate on something that I could imagine McLane being upset about, since it doesn't seem to the outsider that Purpura was bad in any real way - just that he's a guy who got thrown under the bus. "

 

Fair enough.

 

Oh, and by the way, I hear Kristin Davis is a bad speller! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

It's not that I want to 'bite' on that line, I simply have to - I have no idea to what you refer, and honestly had to look up "Kristin Davis" to figure out she's the brunette from Sex & the City. I get the feeling I'm going to really be embarassed when I do find out though...

[GenoSeligPrieb]

No, you won't be embarrassed at all.

 

There's no wink-wink, in-the-know secret about Kristin Davis possibly being illiterate or anything like that. I was just projecting/inventing SOME kind of hidden flaw in her overall "game."

 

It's just that, in my little world at least, I feel Kristin Davis is to actresses, as Carlos Lee is to cleanup men. Consistently getting it done, on a very high level, year after year, appealing...everything I'd want in a left fielder, or an actress!

 

Is she up there with Katie Holmes or a Marisa Coughlan? No, but she's close.

 

Ah hell, this is becoming too damned silly for me... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

with you on the last point. Has Carlos contacted you for legal representation yet? He probably could not find a bigger supporter!http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif

[brewerjamie15]

You guys know that I'm a big Cecil Cooper fan so I'm happy for his new gig. However, once a new manager is chosen, he's probably unemployed.

[JJHardy7]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3041043

[bjkrautk]

Congratulations to Coop.

 

 

Admittedly, though, I'd be much happier if he were managing in another division, so that he wouldn't have to face the Brewers so often.

[BrewCrewForever]

Cooooooooooop! Awesome, congrats to Cecil.