How will the defense be able to improve quite a bit?

[danzig6767]

This is a poor defensive baseball team and looking ahead to next year,i'm try to see how it really can upgrade much in this area.

 

Infield--Seems very likely that the the starting infielders will be the same ones we have this year.Fielder isn't a trainwreck,but he certainly won't be in the better defensive firstbaseman group and more likely he'll be below average.Weeks improved greatly on the errors from last year,but like Prince,defense is far from being a strong suit.Hardy is obviously our best defensive infielder and while not being overly rangy,i'm fine with the defense he provides.Braun is frustrating on defense,can look outstanding once in awhile,but is on a terrible 40 error pace.I'd assume he improves some next year,but odds seem high that overall he'll be a defensive liability next year also.Estrada has no arm,taking a free base comes with ease.

 

Outfield--Hall made significant strides from early in the season,but he can still take some really ugly angles and will look like a guy who didn't spend his life playing the outfield.Centerfield is a very important defensive position,i hope he improves quite a bit or is moved to another position.Hart i liked in right for the most part except his arm is erratic.His height and speed allows him to get to balls some in right can't get to,i expect him to become a nice defensive player in a short time.Jenkins may not be back next year,if not,i'd love to see us get a real CF and move Hall to left.

 

Odds seem high that most of the same players making up our poor defensive team will be back next year and in the same positions.Maybe putting Hall at third,moving Braun to left,and getting a natural CF would help quite a bit,doubt any of that happens though.So where is the significant defensive improvement going to come from?It's true alot of the players involved are young,but it also just might be true that guys like Fielder/Weeks/Braun will never have defense being a strong suit of their game.If that ends up being the case,it's not a big issue if say Braun or Weeks or Fielder were separately on an infield with other strong defenders around them.All three teamed together on an infield is a problem though,then you mix in Hall still learning to play the important CF spot and a catcher in Estrada that lead footed Damien Miller could steal a base on,that defensive unit is not a good friend to our pitching staff.

 

Is another year of experience enough to have hope the defense isn't a big liability again next year?I'm not confident at all that's going to be enough.

[dadofandrew]

They will be better due to experience, if nothing else. They might even hit average.

[bigbrewkahuna]

Doing all those radical things that have about a 0% chance of ever happening is the only hope I see.

Remember last year when many suggested moving Weeks to CF. And this year's spring traing suggestion of finding room for Braun by making him a leftfielder?

Won't happen of course.

And then move Hall back to the infield.

Then aquire a decent fielding outfielder and a decent fielding 3rd baseman this winter.

Trade Estrada for a bag of peanuts and get a real catcher as well.

But again,since most of these ideas are merely flights of fancy and nothing else,expect this team to be doomed in the defensive department for quite some time.

[Ennder]

Braun is still learning 3B so I don't have a big issue with leaving him there for another year. Hall has been fine in CF lately so I'm not too worried about moving him either. Weeks is never going to be a good 2B in my opinion, his bat has to become good enough to make up for it. Hart will get better with another year experience I think. I think we are more or less stuck with what we got right now and we just have to hope it improves with experience. Defense is one of those things that most young guys are behind in and it generally sees good improvement over their first few seasons.

[danzig6767]

They will be better due to experience, if nothing else. They might even hit average.

 

Maybe so,but the crossing your fingers and hope for better defense approach next year wouldn't exactly inspire alot of confidence in me that things improve in this area quite a bit.

 

[Baldkin]

What worries me about Weeks, is that his range is absolutely terrible.

 

He is such an athletic player, I find it hard to believe but he pretty much has the worst range in MLB.

 

Its almost as if they told him to make fewer plays to reduce his throwing errors (where most of his errors have seemed to be).

 

If Braun gets his footwork straight (another year will help immensely) things will be better.

 

Right now, the only above average defender on the team is probably Hart.

 

Jenkins is far from where he was 3 years ago. He's made some spectacular plays, but his range is way down from where it was.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Do you think they could gain anything by playing the same guys in the same spots on a regular basis? Today Hart started in CF and then moved to RF, and later on had an error in RF. Could they gain anything by sticking with the same guys in the same spots and not bouncing guys like Mench to RF and Hart to CF. I'm trying to think if there is another team in the majors that moves around their defensive players in the OF as much as we do. Possibly the Giants, and from what I understand they are no great shakes defensively either.

[Paulus88]

I too notice that our infield is athletic which makes the lack of range seem contradictory. The only thing I can think of is that we use the shift so often. Does condensing one side of the infield by putting three players there actually hurt the coverage of the infield because our players don't get to use their atheletic ability and get to balls further away?

[Baldkin]

We don't use it often enough for it to effect ZR and RF that much.

 

Watch Rickie play. Any ball more than 3-4 steps, he never gets to. I don't think I've seen him dive for a ground ball this year at all, either.

[flosses like fossas]

steadying the pitching would help the defense out a lot.

[Ennder]

Do you think they could gain anything by playing the same guys in the same spots on a regular basis? Today Hart started in CF and then moved to RF, and later on had an error in RF. Could they gain anything by sticking with the same guys in the same spots and not bouncing guys like Mench to RF and Hart to CF. I'm trying to think if there is another team in the majors that moves around their defensive players in the OF as much as we do. Possibly the Giants, and from what I understand they are no great shakes defensively either.

 

We don't move our guys around any more than anyone else. We have had a number of injuries in the OF and have a full time platoon that has made things a bit trickier than for teams with three set starters though.

[endaround]

Jenkins FRAA in 2004: 1

2005: 7

2006: 2 (RF)

2007:5

 

Given the reduction in playing time Jenkins's defense is right where one would expect based on 2005. He hasn't lost much save perhaps on his arm over the past few years. He isn't the defensive player he was in his mid 20s but injuries likely were the cause of that a while ago.

 

BP has Jenkins, Hart, and Hardy all above average, though Hardy is just above given his position.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think one thing we could do -- using only members of our current team --

 

1.) Move Hall to 3b

2.) Move Braun to LF

3.) Move Gross/TGJ to CF.

 

2b and C would still be a problem.

[Thurston Fluff]

Weeks, Braun and Fielder were drafted for their offensive potential with the hope their defense would eventually catch up. Fielder has been better than advertised. That isn't saying much since he was more or less advertised as a DH but he has improved immensly from when I saw him in A ball. At his age there is reason to beliewve he can still make some progress. Weeks has improved but with the struggles he's had at the plate I wouldn't be surprised if his concentration on the defnesive side didn't take a back seat to figuring out his swing this season. If he comes back next year with his swing back to normal it could eventually help his defense. Braun is in his third year total at third. There is every reason to believe he should improve. Hart we all know how he bounced around and same with Hall. Hardy I've been disappointed in. He's a good shortstop but I thought he was supposed to be top shelf.

 

Over all if one could expect improvements offensively from young players as they get major league experience that same experience should help on defense as well. Things like knowing the hitters tendancies better should lead to better reactions to the ball when it is hit.

[lukevan]

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Hall to LF while taking the defensive upgrade in CF and the hit on offense with Gwynn, though I'd much rather grab Torii Hunter this offseason. I'm sure improving the defense is going to part of Doug Melvin's activity this offseason. Obviously there aren't too many available positions to upgrade, but I think CF would be a good place to start if Melvin would move Hall to LF.

[naivin]

The individual players need to improve defensively, plain and simple. Its been done before and it is going to have to be done again. If they don't, DM will have to replace one of two of them (catcher would be a nice place to start - if Estrada is not going to hit at least, he is useless - unfortunatley, at this point it looks as if they are going to have to find other ways to cover for his shortcomings - ie, everybody else has to be better). If Braun in particular can make himself a better fielder, it will help this team tremendously.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think Braun will improve by leaps and bounds. Hardy is solid, but he has quite limited range. That remains a problem. Weeks has improved to the point of adequate. Fielder has problems with knowing when to go for the ball, and when to let the 2nd baseman get it. That should improve with experience. Once Ned is gone along with his cohorts, we should see less of the goofy shifts that are tough on young players. That should help them.

 

Catcher will remain a problem as long as Estrada is the number one catcher.

 

Hall has improved in CF and should continue. Hart shows his OF inexperience from time to time but not as much as he used to.

 

One thing I don't see from any Brewer defender is a sense of anticipation. All the great defensive players seem to sense where a ball was going to be hit before it's hit either by knowing the pitch selection or seeing the swing a hitter puts on a ball. Hopefully these guys will develop that but I think it's more instinctive than anything.

[Thurston Fluff]

One thing I don't see from any Brewer defender is a sense of anticipation. All the great defensive players seem to sense where a ball was going to be hit before it's hit either by knowing the pitch selection or seeing the swing a hitter puts on a ball. Hopefully these guys will develop that but I think it's more instinctive than anything.

 

How much a sense of aniticipation is learned vs natural is an interesting point to debate. I tend to think the opposite of you in this regard. I believe it's something, partially at least, that comes with experience. Knowledge of the pitcher and hitters should help guys anticipate which way the ball will likely be hit so they lean in that direction. Sort of like how base runners lean in towards the next base so they get a better jump while stealing. It might not even be a conscious thing but it must get ingrained to some degree the longer a player sees hitters, pitchers and situations.

[JohnBriggs12]

Backup catchers, you could be right. But when you have young guys who are positioned unnaturally in a shift, their mind is going to be on how to execute what is no longer a simple force play instead of concentrating pitch to pitch on where the ball is likely to be hit.

[dadofandrew]

Not many teams do not shift, after all, if you ignore data collected by scouts and video as to where the ball is likely to be hit, it's pointless to have it. There is some difference into how much they move, but to be honest, it's like hitting on 16 when the dealer has a face card showing...if you don't do it, you're trying to go against sound mathematics...lots of luck with that. If Player A is likely to hit the ball to point B...but we're not going to move in order to best defense that...sounds like war planning gone bad to me.

 

I think many people fail to understand that young players, on average, simply do not do many things as well as older ones, defense, bunting, taking leads, getting good jumps, etc. As you learn these things, it makes up for losing some of your physical attributes..."if only I knew then what I know now". Weeks is a lot better defensively than he once was. Prince looks more comfy as well. Hart is solid in the OF and Hall has progressed a lot in just a couple months.

 

Much of the noise on the defense is comparable to NBA teams drafting a 19 year-old and then giving up on him at 22...still several years before he will peak. 6 position player spots are all but written in stone for 2008, so improvement will have to come from within. Estrada, other than his throwing, has been very good behind the plate, and Miller's CS% is not much higher, if memory serves, indicating the problem is with the staff. Jenkins is very good in LF, or at least well above average...however, that might account for an out a month...LF is simply not an important defensive position. That out is as likely to come in a 12-1 game as in a tie, as well.