Which is it: talent or management

[Samurai Bucky]

Ok... I'm frustrated as are many people on this board. I have heard people say that there is so much talent on this team and Yost isn't managing them well. On the other hand, people say Yost is a good manager and that the players aren't that good.

Well, which is it?

IMHO, Yost makes some bad decisions. Sure, we can nitpick what he does (and we do a good job of it on this board). However, he does put his players in situations to win games and there are many times they don't do their job.

I have had discussions with some people who have had a Cappy-crush this year. Sorry, but I don't think he should be on the staff anymore. They need to get some better arms on the staff... period.

I don't have the answer, and I'm curious what everybody's thought is on this.

[robfuhr]

I do like Yost as a manager and he thinks he has done a good job overall...but his handling of the starting pitchers drives me crazy.

 

I feel that Vargas, Capuano and Bush are essentially 5 and 6 inning pitchers, but yost continually sends them out to give up the lead in the 7th inning...

 

When Bush was not replaced by a pinch hitter in the top of the 7th, I cringed and felt that it was likely that Bush would struggle in the 7th.

 

One of Yosts failing may be that he trusts his players to get done what they should get done (Starters should be able to pitch 7 innings) rather than look at how they have performed and make decisions based on those performances.

 

I think the 7th inning Blowups can ruin a quality day by a pitcher and hurt their confidence. When Capuano has agood start through 5 innings and is in line for a win, it might have helped his confidence to get him out of their and give the game to the bullpen.

 

On the other hand the Bullpen has been overworked at times, but Parra and Villanueva could alternate 3 inning performances when both were available.

[Ennder]

Bush hasn't had a 6th or 7th inning meltdown since June 4th and that one was a walk and two singles with the bullpen letting in the runs, you have to go back to late May for a true meltdown. He doesn't have a history of melting down late in games in fact he's been better than average the 3rd time through the lineup in his career.

 

I just don't understand this nitpick at all, you are remembering a string of big innings early in the season and forgetting that he hasn't had any problems over the past 3 months or in his career as a whole. There was no reason to not start Bush in the 7th today.

 

Anyway to answer the original question its a combination of both and bad 'luck'. I think Yost is at best an average manager and at worst below average so he has probably cost us a few games.

 

The team has an abnormally large number of players who have underproduced expectations, to me that is the 'luck' part of the equation. Players have good and bad seasons and this year we got more than our fair share of bad ones. The pitching talent in general isn't that great on the team. Capuano, Bush and Suppan are all 4.25-4.50ish ERA type talents and Vargas isn't as good as those three and our fielding is horrible.

[Thurston Fluff]

Ennder you summed up things pretty well. I'd disagree that Cappy is a 4.25 to 4.50 ish ERA guy though. Going nto this season the two seasons he pitched enough innings to get an accurate read his ERA was 3.99 and 4.03. He's one of the major reasons this team has struggled. It's hard to blame his problems on anyone other than himself. Considering the same people who helped him the last tow productive years are working with him now pretty much means it's one him.

[homer]

"It's hard to blame his problems on anyone other than himself. "

 

One could argue that the defense has been partially to blame for Cappy's issues.

[Brian the Automator]

Starters:

10th in ERA

11th in IP

 

Not rock-bottom, but if you want to be an above .500 team, you have to do better than this.

 

Yost, the offense, and the relievers aren't blameless, but if forced to finger-point, I point at the starters.

[Brew Man Dan]

atleast we don't have to call up pitchers from AA like last year. Would you rather have say Cappy starting or pray that Dillard has a good ML debut. I would rather have Cappy, and 4 other established starters then having to start unknowns like other teams have too.

[rluzinski]

I have had discussions with some people who have had a Cappy-crush this year. Sorry, but I don't think he should be on the staff anymore. They need to get some better arms on the staff... period.

 

I agree and it goes for all the players, really. If the Brewers can find a better player than the one currently playing, the current player should not be used anymore.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

My answer to the thread title: "Yes"

[Ennder]

Going nto this season the two seasons he pitched enough innings to get an accurate read his ERA was 3.99 and 4.03

 

2005 was luck pure and simple, he pitched like a 4.50 ERA or worse pitcher that year and thats exactly how he is pitching this year. 2006 he cut his BB/9 almost in half and was a different pitcher, he's only thrown like that one season in his career so until he repeats it I assume its just an outlier, he had a career year.

[AdvantageSchneider]

The brewers may be fatally flawed in that they are not good enough in several key areas

 

1) Defense - not just fielding percentage, but perhaps more importantly range.

2) OBP

 

So I guess the answer is talent. Not that the guys they have aren't talented, but the sum of the whole is less than the parts individually. Does that make sense? As a whole they don't play good enough defense or get on base enough. You could off set that if not every player on the team had that problem, but those two problems appear to be a team wide issue.

 

I don't know if just getting more experience will fix those problems.

[clancyphile]

I put it down mostly to lack of luck. A good series in AZ, but then Prince had to be suspended for two games. That was a momentum-killer right there.

 

The starters got hurt, and then were never the same. Cappy, then Sheets both went down. So did Rickie Weeks, whose wrist was never 100% at all this year. Braun was called up too late.

 

Can't do much about luck.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I don't think you can chalk up the collapse the brewers have had to luck.

 

I don't think Prince would have made much of a difference. They lost 11-6 and 6-2. Prince is good, but he's generally not 4-5 run difference good.

[adambr2]

It's not talent. IMO it's about 40% luck, 40% execution, and 20% management.

 

We can't do anything about the first 80%, but we may do something about the management.

[bjkrautk]

I do like Yost as a manager and he thinks he has done a good job overall...but his handling of the starting pitchers drives me crazy.

 

I feel that Vargas, Capuano and Bush are essentially 5 and 6 inning pitchers, but yost continually sends them out to give up the lead in the 7th inning...

 

When Bush was not replaced by a pinch hitter in the top of the 7th, I cringed and felt that it was likely that Bush would struggle in the 7th.

 

One of Yosts failing may be that he trusts his players to get done what they should get done (Starters should be able to pitch 7 innings) rather than look at how they have performed and make decisions based on those performances.

 

I think the 7th inning Blowups can ruin a quality day by a pitcher and hurt their confidence. When Capuano has agood start through 5 innings and is in line for a win, it might have helped his confidence to get him out of their and give the game to the bullpen.

 

On the other hand the Bullpen has been overworked at times, but Parra and Villanueva could alternate 3 inning performances when both were available.

...am I the only one who couldn't help but think back to this thread during the 7th inning tonight? When Ned does take out the starting pitcher at the first sign of trouble in the 7th...it still doesn't matter.

(Were I to type anything else, I'd have to put this in the 'vent' thread.)

 

[sgtcluels]

Hard question. But I'll go "from the gut"

 

Management. The Brewers are a young team, with a young team comes inconsistent play. So I will say Management, as I thinl Yost has completely lost the team for a few months now. I think Ned could do very well in MLB, but NOT with such a young team that needs to be developed. His mind games and game time decisions seem to mess with their heads, and his bp management leaves much.. much to be desired. They've got all the potential talent in the world right now, and I have no faith that Ned can squeeze it out of them. Perhaps he can find success in Houston, and we can bring in Kremblas who knows the kids well.... So there you go. Bring in new management before we are 10 games out, do it while we still have a chance.

[AdvantageSchneider]

How has Yost's BP management changed from when we got off to the 24-10 start. I can't tell much of a difference. It's T-bow and coco in the 8th and 9th and mix and match everybody else.

[Ennder]

How has Yost's BP management changed from when we got off to the 24-10 start. I can't tell much of a difference. It's T-bow and coco in the 8th and 9th and mix and match everybody else.

To be fair during our 24-10 stretch there were still a lot of complaints about bullpen usage so people have stayed consistent. Just back then the complaints were kind of cute since things were going well, now they aren't so cute because we are losing games left and right.

 

The secret is it doesn't matter what Yost does people will complain about the bullpen usage every other game no matter what, the same holds true on every single baseball forum I've ever visited. That doesn't make Yost a good or bad manager, its just the simple truth.