Claudio Vargas: Awesome at Pitching

[DougJones43]

Just kidding. He sucks.

 

I wish we'd given a starting spot to Villanueva from the beginning of the season. I think the payoff right now would have been much better. Vargas has built his season on lucky breaks and awesome run support. Predictably, he has come crashing down hard because those things can't stay constant for very long. I just hope that when Villy gets some rest and gets stretched out, he takes this clown's spot in the rotation sometime in September. Despite Capuano's stuggles, he's another guy that I'd rather seen in the rotation over Vargas.

 

I really don't know why Vargas was given a spot at all this year. He was pretty bad for 4+ years when we traded for him. I believe he came into spring training with the upper hand to win the 5th spot in the rotation so that Melvin could try and justify and make his big off-season trade look more valuable. I (and many others) have kind of known all along that this was the inevitable result of Claudio Vargas as a year-long starter for the Brewers. It's very frustrating, and I just don't know why Melvin and Yost couldn't see it coming as well. It shouldn't have been difficult, given Vargas' poor secondary stats this year and career-long track record as sub-par rotation stooge.

 

Please. No more Vargas!

[MoneyballMan]

I'm not really going to get into the Vargas thing, but I have had this feeling that they sent CV down to stretch him out in order to bring him back up in the rotation. It's almost like they know he'll have to replace one of the starters (Vargas may be the most obvious after tonight), so why not prepare him for it?

[DougJones43]

It's almost like they know he'll have to replace one of the starters (Vargas may be the most obvious after tonight), so why not prepare him for it?

Yeah. Too bad they'll probably point toward Vargas' 10-4 record as a reason he needs to keep starting. My guess is Sheets will take Gallardo's spot when he comes back, and if Villanueva is then brought back as a starter, Capuano will probably remain the odd man out while Vargas keeps his spot.

 

edit: Capuano still isn't making a strong case for himself tonight, but he at least has some recent past success to fall back on. Vargas has no real success - ever - to fall back on.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Vargas needs to be out of this rotation. The guy has been lucky all season and his luck has finally run out. Let Villanueva take Vargas' next start because Vargas cannot and should not pitch against the cubs.

[packfan79]

He is hard to take just when you think he is absolutely terrible he will have a quality start then follow it up with tonights debacle. Are pitching in general has been awful since the all star break so who knows what will happen with Vargas.

[Ennder]

I agree that Vargas has been our worst pitcher overall. I do think that the 2nd half of last season Vargas showed real growth and he was throwing the ball great to enter the season so he deserved the job. In April he pitched great and then later in the season he kept getting lucky and it made it harder and harder to replace him. At this point I'd replace him if we could but Capuano has more or less lost his spot especially considering all the HR's he gave up today so I'm guessing Vargas is here to stay.

[MNBrew]

Tonight was not anything short of a resounding black mark on both Vargas and Capuano. And it underscores one of my main frustrations with the way this team has played the past two months: You still can have a chance to win with a below-average offense provided you have decent pitching. But with terrible pitching, ultimately it usually doesn't matter how good your hitting is. 6 runs tonight on 16 hits would've won many other games. But to still lose by 5 is horrendous.

 

Vargas was lucky to end up with a no-decision. It says something about the team coming back from Vargas' terrible outing to end up tied two innings later. Capuano just came in and flushed the game right back down the toilet. What a morale killer!

 

Overall, Capuano at least has generally pretty good stuff even though this year he can't seem to locate his pitches well. For that reason, I'd find it much more plausible for the Brewers to want to bring him back than Vargas next year.

 

Pitching like tonight was extremely depressing!

[DougJones43]

I do think that the 2nd half of last season Vargas showed real growth

 

What are you basing that on? Here are some of his second half numbers from 2006:

 

- 4.75 ERA

- 1.36 WHIP

- 5.69 Innings/Start

- 14 HR allowed in 14 starts

[Ennder]

I do think that the 2nd half of last season Vargas showed real growth

What are you basing that on? Here are some of his second half numbers from 2006:

 

- 4.75 ERA

- 1.36 WHIP

- 5.69 Innings/Start

- 14 HR allowed in 14 starts

 

6.4 K/9 in 1st half, 6.88 K/9 in 2nd half.

3.25 BB/9 in 1st half, 2.37 BB/9 in 2nd half.

 

When your K's go up and BB's go down I generally assume the pitcher is seeing improvement and spring training and the 1st month of this season certainly backed that.

[DougJones43]

6.4 K/9 in 1st half, 6.88 K/9 in 2nd half.

3.25 BB/9 in 1st half, 2.37 BB/9 in 2nd half.

 

When your K's go up and BB's go down I generally assume the pitcher is seeing improvement and spring training and the 1st month of this season certainly backed that.

So he bumped his numbers up from very bad to just bad. If anybody was impressive in the second half of 2006, and early on in this season, it was Carlos Villanueva. I think he deserved a spot in the starting rotation. Thrusting a very promising young starter (who has been conditioned to be a starter for the better part of his career) into the bullpen, and then abusing them with a ridiculous number of appearances in the first few months is a recipe for disaster.

 

Now he's stuck at AAA to try and undo some of the damage that has been done. I think the handling of Villanueva could be something that has a long-lasting impact. It could hinder the ability to re-condition and re-establish him as an option to be a starting pitcher next year. He almost certainly won't be able to go anywhere near 200 IP, but hey, it was all worth it to give Vargas a shot at turning around his putrid career!

[danzig6767]

Since his solid rookie year

 

5.25

4.81

4.83

5.13 this year

 

Vargas is what he is,a somewhat tolerable 5th starter that will give you an ERA around 5 and not pitch deep into games,but most 5th starters don't either.I don't think he's much of a pitcher,look around baseball though,there aren't exactly a bevy of top notch pitchers anchoring the 5th starter spot.The demand for quality starting pitching in baseball is higher than the supply,that's why guys like Vargas will continue to have a job.

[Fatter than Joey]

I really don't know why Vargas was given a spot at all this year.

 

I don't have a problem with Vargas getting a spot -- in fact given his good W/L stats early on, I bet he could have been traded for something pretty cool.

 

Vargas was/is better than a lot of the garbage we ran out in 2006.

 

If I could ask DM one question where he had to be totally honest, I would ask him if he tried to trade Vargas, or if he thought Vargas was going to win 20 games for the Brewers this year.

 

I subscribe to the theory that Villy is totally spent for 2007 -- I don't think he will perform better than Vargas or Cappy in 2007.

[Ennder]

So he bumped his numbers up from very bad to just bad

 

6.88 K/9 and 2.37 BB/9 are decent peripheral stats. Villaneuva's 2006 ERA was extremely lucky because of a very low BABIP. If I had to put money on it I'd say he is a 4.00+ ERA guy long term. I just don't think that it was a clear cut mistake letting Vargas start this season. He is the proper age and experience to still see improvement, he improved the 2nd half of last year and he was great in spring training and in april

[valpocrewsader]

The worst part for me is that Vargas could've been worth something decent at the trade deadline. His numbers were still good enough in appearance that a club desperate for pitching might've found him pretty attractive. Too bad Sheets' injury pretty much put the kabosh on any idea of trading away starting mlb pitching.

[TooLiveBrew]

agreed - wish Benny could've given us more during the middle of this season. I have a strong suspicion that Claudio either just cashed in his last shot this year, or that he's got only one left. Trouble is, I don't know that this team has one more game with which to gamble this year.

[Ennder]

I'd love to see Villaneuva stretched out in the minors and starting in Vargas' place, maybe he can take Capuano's too!