Piggybacking Idea (Bush, Capuano, Vargas)

[Brian the Automator]

Day 1) Bush (4 IP), Capuano (3 IP)

Day 2) Sheets

Day 3) Suppan

Day 4) Capuano (4 IP), Vargas (3 IP)

Day 5) Gallardo

Day 6) Vargas (4 IP), Bush (3 IP)

Day 7) Sheets

Day 8) Suppan

Day 9) Bush (4 IP), Capuano (3 IP)

-- lather, rinse, repeat --

 

This would limit the rough innings that 3 of our starters seem to face, and would give pitchers regular work. Obviously some of the innings limits on the 3 piggybackers might be adjusted due to pitch counts or rough innings, but could this be viable? Just throwing this out there, as it's just something I tossed around in my head for a few minutes. Please find some holes in it, so I can put it to rest.

[fondybrewfan]

How about substituting Parra for Capuano?

[bklynbrewcrew]

How about including Suppan in the piggybacking idea since he never gets through the sixth inning either.

[Team Canada]

I'm not sure Vargas could do another 4 on only 1 day rest.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Why exactly does Suppan always get a pass. What has he done to be put ahead of Bush?

[lukevan]

Suppan has actually been ok his last few starts. And Bush has been a little better lately too.

 

Interesting idea Brian, I think it has validity. Combining Vargas and Cappy's starts would be the most beneficial.

[hauser42]

Hard to do this because what happens when one of the other starters gets rocked early in a game. Do you let him stay in and take a beating becaue you have already put some of the pen on this piggy back schedule??

 

In theory this is a good idea, but realisticly it is hard to see it working.

[Brian the Automator]

Hard to do this because what happens when one of the other starters gets rocked early in a game. Do you let him stay in and take a beating becaue you have already put some of the pen on this piggy back schedule??

 

In theory this is a good idea, but realisticly it is hard to see it working.

If the starter got rocked, you would extend the piggybacker or dip into the rest of the pen. Perhaps you would need a second (or fourth, depending on how you phrase it) mopup guy for such an occasion. Off days could play beneficially into this as well. Perhaps it would allow you to carry one fewer bat, since in theory you're not churning through the same number of relievers per game.

Suppan gets a pass because, career-wise, he doesn't have that much of a history of going short, then getting shelled near the 6th. Also, I didn't include Parra because he's got about 25 innings left, and honestly, I think Cappy needs the work more than Parra does.

 

[bigredrobbo]

Interesting idea, but I'd like to see us think about a 6 man rotation to limit innings pitched between now and October.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'd be kind of hard to pull a guy if he was pitching a shutout wouldn't it? A modified form of that might be a better idea. Have the piggy backed pitcher on notice. If the starter struggles to the tune of 2 runs in three of four innings have a quick hook with both pitchers aware before the game the MO for the game. If the starter cruises through five or six all the better. If he faulters in the least it's covered.

[Brian the Automator]

I'd be kind of hard to pull a guy if he was pitching a shutout wouldn't it? A modified form of that might be a better idea. Have the piggy backed pitcher on notice. If the starter struggles to the tune of 2 runs in three of four innings have a quick hook with both pitchers aware before the game the MO for the game. If the starter cruises through five or six all the better. If he faulters in the least it's covered.

You wouldn't have a problem pulling Turnbow out to go to Cordero if he struck out the side. To me, it's no different. Part of the reason the plan might be successful, is because you would stick to the plan. The problem with modifying the plan on the fly would be not getting pitchers a regular amount of rest.

 

[MNBrew]

Sounds like an interesting idea, Brian, and maybe something of a variation on an old Tony LaRussa trick from his Oakland days in which he had guys stacked for 3 innings apiece when they had squat for pitching. I think that was sometime either shortly before or after the Bash Brothers Era, although I could be wrong.

 

In theory, it could work well if the plan would stick: save the bullpen guys by ideally guaranteeing more innings from starters (in a way) and also keep the shorter-outing starters a little farther from the points at which they typically run out of gas.

 

I'm not sure I'd go with this idea, but I like your creative thinking, Brian.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

In September we will call up more pitchers, making this plan even more plausible. I almost started a thread about this topic the other day. They could go Sheets-Villanueva, Suppan-Capuano, Bush-McClung, Gallardo-Parra, and Vargas-Wise. I just listed names as I thought of them, I haven't really thought this out. I am just trying to show that we would have 10 guys to do this. In this plan, the starter would only be asked to go 5. That is all most of them go anyways. If somebody is pitching well, we could bump back a reliever and knock out Wise. We would still have Linebrink, Turnbow, and Cordero to finish. Shouse and Spurling will be there as well. We could do this with expanded rosters. I think that piggy-backing is a much better idea than a 6-man rotation. I don't see how an extra day of rest will get a pitcher deeper into a ballgame. In the piggy-back plan it is a relay, the two pitchers will get us deep into the game. It is not the best way to do things, but it may be the best way to use our staff.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'd be kind of hard to pull a guy if he was pitching a shutout wouldn't it? A modified form of that might be a better idea. Have the piggy backed pitcher on notice. If the starter struggles to the tune of 2 runs in three of four innings have a quick hook with both pitchers aware before the game the MO for the game. If the starter cruises through five or six all the better. If he faulters in the least it's covered.

You wouldn't have a problem pulling Turnbow out to go to Cordero if he struck out the side. To me, it's no different. Part of the reason the plan might be successful, is because you would stick to the plan. The problem with modifying the plan on the fly would be not getting pitchers a regular amount of rest.

 

 

Differant situation altogether IMHO. T-bow is a reliever with no stamina and a history of being more of a one or two inning guy with little in the way of secondary pitches to keep hitters off balance. Most relievers are relievers because they don't have the abilty to be a starter. Not that they aren't very good in their role. Maybe even better than the starter over a shorter period but they don't have enough quality pitches or some other factor that prevented them from being an effective starter. I know this isn't necessarily the case in today's game but usually relievers become relievers because they aren't good enough to go through a lineup multiple times per game.

[HebrewHammer]

Sounds like it might work in theory. I don't think it would work in practice however.

[lukevan]

Shouse and Spurling will be there as well.

 

 

Spurling was DFA'd, but the rest of your points are valid.

[RightFieldCoder]

On day 4 Cappy pitches 4 perfect innings and his pitch count is 46. Your schedule says pull him out. If you leave him in there and he loses it everyone complains you didn't follow the schedule. If you pull Cappy and Vargas pulls a Hendrickson and lets 7 straight batter on it looks like a horrible idea.

[pitchleague]

I like the idea because it makes sense. However, in this day and age of arbitration and such do you think those starters that "short changed" and held to 4 IP for a start will cause a stink because they can't get a win? And how about their agents that will file some sort of grievance that their players can't accrue wins to increase their arby value?

 

Just was curious on your thought.

[FVBrewerFan]

I lean towards AKA Augie's rotation. Align two pitchers together, and keep them together throughout September. For example, Capuano/Villy pitch every 5th start. Cappy goes no more than 5 , then Villy for 2-4. You still use Linebrink/Tbow/Shouse/Cordero as necessary in close games (or when they need work.)

 

What I like about this is you may minimize the need to use guys like Wise, Linebrink, Tbow night in night out. One undeniable truth that really lends credibility to this rotation is that just about every starting pitcher does very well for the first 5 innings. Cappy, Suppan, Bush, and Vargas routinely sail through 5 innings then start getting hammered.

 

But this allows for flexibility. Say you have a Gallardo/Parra combo. Gallardo starts getting hit hard in the 2nd. Parra takes over immediately. The key is to remove the starter (except Sheets) after 5 innings. Doesn't matter if he's tossing a perfect game. They have all proven beyond any speculation that trouble is coming by the 6th.

 

Finally, I also like how all 9 "starters" would know when they will pitch. So the "back end" starters can prepare for a "start" It's actually commonplace in the low minors, and many of these guys have expereinced such a rotation. Off the top of my head:

 

Sheets

Gallardo/Wise, Linebrink, whoever they add, etc.

Cappy/Villy

Suppan/Parra

Bush/Vargas

[Brian the Automator]

I like the idea because it makes sense. However, in this day and age of arbitration and such do you think those starters that "short changed" and held to 4 IP for a start will cause a stink because they can't get a win? And how about their agents that will file some sort of grievance that their players can't accrue wins to increase their arby value?

 

Just was curious on your thought.

That's a very good point.

 

[dadofandrew]

Consider the Crew is right about average as far as how long their SP's go, it's much ado about nothing. What they need to do is pitch better, not longer.

[Brian the Automator]

Consider the Crew is right about average as far as how long their SP's go, it's much ado about nothing. What they need to do is pitch better, not longer.

Average doesn't win games.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

So Ned Yost, who's never won anything in his managerial career, is going to radically alter convention by piggybacking starters in the middle of his first ever pennant race?

 

Now whether or not it would work is up to debate, but if it didn't, I wouldn't like his chances of keeping his job or getting another for that matter.

 

Bush has 2 straight quality starts. Vargas fell one out short of a quality start last time out or he would also have 2 straight. Gallardo just pitched 6 shutout innings and Sheets is just around the corner from returning. Suppan generally keeps the games close.

 

Like it or not, they are going to sink or swim with those guys.

[Brian the Automator]

So Ned Yost, who's never won anything in his managerial career, is going to radically alter convention by piggybacking starters in the middle of his first ever pennant race?

I'm not saying it's even remotely likely. I was just throwing it out there to see if we could find some holes in the idea.

But if it happens, I get full credit.

 

[dadofandrew]

Average will win you about 81...it won't take much more than that. SP's go about 6, nowadays, and I think we'll see someone gutsy enough to install a 4 man rotation in which the plan is the starter goes 5, 6 max if their pitch count is low enough. Until then, we'll keep hearing about the good ol' days, but in reality, 6 good frames is fine. In the Brewers' case, 5.81 innings of the entire staff pitching like a #4/5 guy is what's caused the problems.