Former Mets trainer to provide names to Mitchell about steriod users

[brewers255]

Ex-Mets clubby talks to Mitchell

Kirk Radomski, the former Mets clubhouse attendant who admitted selling steroids to scores of major leaguers, recently has provided names of users in a meeting with baseball's lead steroid investigator, George Mitchell, SI.com has learned.

One person familiar with some of Mitchell's findings said people are going to be "very surprised'' by how much Mitchell has learned about baseball's steroid past.

"When you see the [steroid] list, it's going to blow your mind.''

Thoughts on this?

[Katuluu]

I can't see the list "blowing my mind" as I assume a minimum of a third of all players use performance enhancers of some sort. And I consider that a very low estimate. I wouldn't be shocked if it's as high as 75% of all players. Baseball certainly has a long history of various forms of cheating, many of which are still used today.

[DSFastball55]

So what is going to happen to the players on the list that are still active? Are they all going to be suspended or something?

[endaround]

Nothing can happen

[Brian the Automator]

"When you see the [steroid] list, it's going to blow your mind.''

Juan Pierre?

 

[Invader3K]

If Pierre was on the list, I'd hope he'd sue the guy for a refund and making false claims.

[lukevan]

I'm with Katuluu, I won't be surprised if the number appears to be over 50%. The only players that are being talked about in the media are the ones that hit all the homers, but you have to believe players of lesser ability are just as if not more likely to have used steroids.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"So what is going to happen to the players on the list that are still active? Are they all going to be suspended or something? "

 

Oh yeah, Bud's brand of justice will be as swift and severe as it always is. I mean, c'mon, Bud claims he DID read "Book of Shadows" and just look at that lifetime ban he threw down on Barry Bonds! That was weird and wild shtuff.

[Thurston Fluff]

If Pierre was on the list, I'd hope he'd sue the guy for a refund and making false claims.

 

His best/only tool is his speed. Look at how many track guys use steroids. Steroids are used for more than just hitting homeruns.

 

It would be good for the game if the Mitchell investigation turned out to be more than window dressing. It could work as a deterant in the future if it revealed a number of cheaters. Especially considering there are things that can't be tested for. There has to be some form of deterant other than testing. It's a little off the subject but I think it wuld be wise for all the major sports to start it's own performance enhaincing investigative branch. Something more like a police detective agency and less like a senate investigation which is more concerned with past offenses than it is with on going abuse.

[don1481]

"So what is going to happen to the players on the list that are still active? Are they all going to be suspended or something? "

 

Oh yeah, Bud's brand of justice will be as swift and severe as it always is. I mean, c'mon, Bud claims he DID read "Book of Shadows" and just look at that lifetime ban he threw down on Barry Bonds! That was weird and wild shtuff.

Geno, I think, in this case, the blame falls just as much on the Union and the CBA as it does on Selig's inability to enforce the rules. If this was the NFL, for example, Barroid would have been suspended some time back for the perjury/steroids/tax evasion legal issues. Unfortunately, if Bud were to try that, the Union would probably immediately go on strike.

 

I'm hoping that the outcome of the whole Mitchell investigation is a CBA that is more along the lines of the NFL's in terms of being able to suspend players even if they haven't been convicted. Then we'll see whether or not Bud is as "spineless" as people claim.

[Patrick425]

Geno, I think, in this case, the blame falls just as much on the Union and the CBA as it does on Selig's inability to enforce the rules. If this was the NFL, for example, Barroid would have been suspended some time back for the perjury/steroids/tax evasion legal issues. Unfortunately, if Bud were to try that, the Union would probably immediately go on strike.

 

I'm hoping that the outcome of the whole Mitchell investigation is a CBA that is more along the lines of the NFL's in terms of being able to suspend players even if they haven't been convicted. Then we'll see whether or not Bud is as "spineless" as people claim.

I agree 100%

[endaround]

So an employee of MLB, you know someone directly under Bud's control, was handing out steroids and somehow its all the player's union's doing?

 

Yes if only baseball treated its players as cattle the way the NFL does. Then there would be no problems! After all there are no steroids in the NFL....

[Brian the Automator]

If Pierre was on the list, I'd hope he'd sue the guy for a refund and making false claims.

His best/only tool is his speed. Look at how many track guys use steroids. Steroids are used for more than just hitting homeruns.

Those guys usually at least have a hint of muscle tone, though. Pierre is paralleled only by Mr Burns.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Patrick, Don, you're both right.

Donald Fehr wanted wider drug testing to be a negotiable bargaining chip in the collective agreement with MLB, so he would only support testing to the extent that he could extract more contract perks from MLB. And the bolder and even slimier Gene Orza marginalized the allegations against Bonds with his infamous quote, "You can get testosterone from eating a steak." In "Game of Shadows", Orza was also quoted as saying "Testing someone...all this suspicion...for doing your job as best as you possibly can, is un-American."

I already admire Roger Goodell, as he is taking no nonsense from players who engage in illegal activites. I just wish Bud, in dealing with Bonds, would have taken a similar tack, and invoked his broad "Best interests of the sport" powers, and just suspended Bonds indefinitely, based on all the BALCO testimony, court records, the measures the IRS has taken against Bonds so far, and just let the union sue. There's already more than enough evidence to substantiate a lifetime ban. The case would drag out for years, appeals would be heard, and by the time the smoke clears, Bonds would have been too old to urinate on Hank Aaron's record, on the game any further.

The record is all Bonds wanted. It's all he kept playing for. In the book, fellow BALCO user, sprinter Tim Montgomery said "Victor (Conte), if you get me that Gold in the 100-meter, I don't care if I drop dead on the other side of the finish line." And THAT is why Barry Bonds has succeeded, and has won. Anything they do to him now, doesn't matter, because his life's goals have been satisfied.

Take away Bonds from his family? Who cares? He had a European "interpretive dancer" in New York, as well as Kimberly Bell, among others, so his own gratification came before his family. His kids Nikolai and Aisha were literally used only as human shields when he chose to bring them to press conferences or to help his public image on his ESPN reality TV series. Take away his career? He already "accomplished" all he could, and in his mind, and in the record books, his name won't disappear. Take away his liberty? He already crossed HIS finish line, so it doesn't matter. Take away his life, like Ken Caminiti? It doesn't seem like even that matters to him, given all the destructive chemicals he has ingested.

As I've said so many times, with regard to this matter, Justice delayed is justice denied. Bonds already won.

[don1481]

I just wish Bud, in dealing with Bonds, would have taken a similar tack, and invoked his broad "Best interests of the sport" powers, and just suspended Bonds indefinitely, based on all the BALCO testimony, court records, the measures the IRS has taken against Bonds so far, and just let the union sue. There's already more than enough evidence to substantiate a lifetime ban. The case would drag out for years, appeals would be heard, and by the time the smoke clears, Bonds would have been too old to urinate on Hank Aaron's record, on the game any further.

 

In theory, yes, Bud could have done that. But, again, I wouldn't be surprised if the Union went on strike as retaliation. The CBA - as presently written - gives a disproportionate amount of the power to the players in terms of blocking potential suspensions like this. Would you honestly want a strike right now, Geno, with the Brewers in first? I sure wouldn't. It'd parallel the "lost season" with the Montreal Expos. After that year, the franchise hasn't been good at all.

 

Again, Goodell gets away with it because of the NFL's CBA. Baseball needs one like that.

 

You're right about one thing - Barry already won. He had his moment of glory. He flexed those illicitly-obtained muscles as he watched #756 fly out of the ballpark. That's all he wanted - nothing more.

[TooLiveBrew]

Nothing left in the MLB drug-abuse world will shock me. What shocks me is that people think steroid/HGH is in the past. I think the number of abusers during the steroid 'golden era' (perhaps 80s & 90s) was much, much, closer to 100% than anyone will ever admit or conceive. My guess is that, even now, well over 75% of players are still using. MLB still cannot effectively detect HGH, and to look around the league, I'd be shocked if anything less than 80% of these guys are using. Thing is, only the dummies are getting caught now, since there's no reason to keep using detectable steroids, as opposed to HGH. I'm sorry to say that I think many of our current Brewers are also among the abusers. There has been a culture developed in MLB, and until someone - anyone - stands up to it (a la Goodell - I know the limitations Selig faces, but his lack of action is sickening), it will continue to thrive.

[Thurston Fluff]

Those guys usually at least have a hint of muscle tone, though. Pierre is paralleled only by Mr Burns.

 

point taken.

 

I already admire Roger Goodell, as he is taking no nonsense from players who engage in illegal activites

 

Yes those 4 game suspensions for steroid use really is a major punishment. I mean it might have even cost a player his chance to be a player of the year last season of course there is no policy prohibiting proven steroid cheaters from recieveing those awards . It's really cool that he feels the punishment should be the same for someone who's cheating the game and clean players as harshly as he does guys who smoke pot or get arrested for a misdemeanor an never get convicted of them.

He really did a lot to punish the teams who had a pipeline of steroids coming in from a doctor with a very questionable history prior to his arrest. He really went after the Panther organization after a number of players on their team got caught. Where are the investigations into the teams that seem to pop up with steroid abuse more than others? Why hasn't he established guidelines to punish teams who hire doctors or trainers with steroid connestions. He could do a lot more to stop PE's than he has. But of course it's only Bud that people expect to be proactive. God forbid we hold the NFL commisioner up to the same standard. Something that's especially odd since he has the NFLPA in his back pocket. I wonder what Bud would have done if he had the union in his back pocket like Goodell does?

Don't get me wrong I applaude what Goodell has done to clean up the outlaws and bad behavior. But to equate that with actually doing something about the illegal steroid use that is as prevelant as ever in the NFL is stretching credibility. If Goodell was as concerned with performance enhancing drugs as he was with other illegal activites I would give him more credit. Unfortunaltly he seems to be turning a blind eye to that portion of his new stringent policies.

[TooLiveBrew]

Steroids are good for business, plain & simple. That's why they get pooh-poohed, but never really cleaned up. They do wonderful things like allow players to set freakish records (just like 73 HR, 30 TDs in one year is just eyebrow-raising)! Unless/Until we, the paying customers - er, fans, have anything real to say about it, the steroid beat goes on.

 

Bud Selig has the chance, given this Mitchell investigation, to really do something about drug abuse. Given all the Partnership for a Drug-free America work he prioritizes, I'd guess he has a genuine interest in cleaning up the game. Someone mentioned - in an almost threatening way - that the MLBPA would strike. Perhaps they would, but who has egg on their face then? Players striking about real consequences for using illegal drugs? This is bigger than one season, this is bigger than just MLB/NFL/NHL/NBA, etc. With all the hypocritical 'Don't use steroids...' ads MLB runs, what they currently preach is 'don't use them until you grow up!' Steroids are destructive & can be killers. To continue to endorse their use, by simply looking the other way, is atrocious, and to threaten hard consequences with, 'We'll strike!' is disgustingly selfish, arrogant, and reckless.

 

Bud is doing everything he can with what's in place right now. The problem is that this is barely even the tip of the iceberg. Once the public is able to see that it's more than just Barroids & Giambi that abused, Bud's hand will be much, much easier to play.