Warming up relievers myth?

[Thurston Fluff]

I've read for a while now that Ned has his relievers warming up in the pen to much. It's something that seems to have become conventional wisdom on this site. So I started to pay attention to other teams relievers warming up for roughly a month. I should have logged them but unfortunatly didn't so this isn't scinetific by any stretch of the imagination. I think it was something more than just repeating conventional wisdom on the subject though since I specifically paid attention to other managers and teams on this point. What I did was to count the times our opponents (or both teams in non brewer games) bullpen warmed up paid attention to the habits of other managers with regard to warming up relievers. It came as very little surprise to me to find that all teams get their relievers up quite regularly and don't use them. Most teams got a reliever up earlier than the sixth when the starter gave up several runs in an inning if they struggled in other innings. Most teams get relievers up in close games after the fifth inning unless the starter was dominant or the team was up by a significant amount and the starter wasn't struggling. I did notice several teams warming up more than one pitcher more than Ned does (this is one is very unscientific since it is not a fairly small sample size). The few AL games I've seen appears to have less dry runs than the NL but that has been to few to really count. I'd guess the AL would have less warm ups due to the DH. There is never a need to get a reliever ready in the event of pinch hitting the pitchers spot. Overall I think this has become something akin to stategic decisions. Easy to second guess, nothing concrete to counter it and a great way to disparage a manager that is disliked without having to prove he was wrong.

 

I didn't look for stats on dry runs because I doubt there is anything detailed enough to validate it. If someone knows of a place to find such numbers I'd love to see it. Especially if my very unscientific approach was way off. Being proven wrong only means I learned something new.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif

[RU Rah Rah]

I think that you're right about this being really hard to quantify and thereby compare. Unless there is a "bullpen pitch count" stat somewhere (which I seriously doubt), it's going to be pretty anecdotal.

[1992casey]

It would seem to be pretty anecdotal on our end, but I'd hope teams would be keeping track of bullpen warmup pitches.

[Thurston Fluff]

It would seem to be pretty anecdotal on our end, but I'd hope teams would be keeping track of bullpen warmup pitches.

 

According to Castro they do. Which is another reason why I don't think Ned is doing anything out of the ordinary. He's been around the game long enough to know the impact of dry runs. He also has one of the most experienced bullpen coachs in the game to help him with that. I just think to much has been made of Ned getting up relievers more than necessary when in all reality he probably does it about the same as every other manager in the league.

[Paul77]

According to Castro they do. Which is another reason why I don't think Ned is doing anything out of the ordinary. He's been around the game long enough to know the impact of dry runs. He also has one of the most experienced bullpen coachs in the game to help him with that.

 

I could be wrong, but wasn't Yost a bullpen coach for a while in Atlanta? If so I would think that just solidifies your point.

[Paul77]

Answered my own question, he was the Braves bullpen coach for eight years.

[Thurston Fluff]

Good point 20fry. If there is one manager in the league right now that should understand better than any other how to deal with warming up relievers it's probably Ned. That doesn't mean he can always do something about it though. The circumstances of the game dictates to a large degree how the bullpen gets used.

[lukevan]

Good post. I've seen so many ripping Yost for this but I figured it was pretty standard that sometimes you have to warm up a guy that you won't end up using that night. Sometimes it's unavoidable.

[BillScottCanRake]

If there is a player in the pen who maybe should have been handled differently (from a standpoint of usage) it's probably Villanueva. I think part of his struggles lately (August especially) could well be related to making the adjustment from a more regimented routine of a starter to that of a reliever. If Villanueva is a bit worn down, it's from that 4 1/2 months of being a reliever and all that it entails.

 

Otherwise, I think Yost has done ok managing their workload.

[giffted1]

I think Ned has done a good job managing the relievers not named Carlos. I know Ned has been criticized for frequently warming guys up and not using them, but if he hadn't warmed them up he'd be criticized when the pitcher in the game implodes and no one in the pen is ready. It's a problem that can't be avoided without the use of a crystal ball.

[Thurston Fluff]

totally agree with you BSR. Villy has been overused. I wonder if this is out of the ordinary for one guy to take on a heavy workload early then get domoted later in the season when he gets tired. Every staff ends up rotating a few relievers. Some because they were never good enough but some probably became a sacrificial lamb because the team needed someone to eat up innings without costing to many games in the process. Villy seems to be that person this year. If he ends up not contributing any more this year but the Brewers still make the playoffs his contributions will be no less valuable having come earlier in the year.

[RU Rah Rah]

It would seem to be pretty anecdotal on our end, but I'd hope teams would be keeping track of bullpen warmup pitches.

Yeah, I should have been more precise. I was thinking more in terms of Baseball-reference-ish sortable stuff, available for public consumption.