Is this rock-bottom yet?

[clancyphile]

Guys, can the Brewers get any lower?

[TauPentaRei]

"Hitting bottom isn't a weekend retreat. It's not a (goshdarn) seminar."

- Tyler Durden

 

I imagine it's real easy to become a clubhouse leader when you're comfortably in first place and have the national media stroking your (ego). I bet it's a lot harder to be leaned on when the season is crumbling around you.

 

I just returned from Djibouti... no TV no radio no internet no newspapers no nothing. The last game I saw was the Brewers beating the Cardinals 5 - 3 to close out the 2006 season. Returning to the states to see the Brewers in first place is quite refreshing! All you can hope is that your horse is close enough to make a move down the home stretch, to peak at the right time...

[craigharmann]

Yes. They're still in first...barely. Honestly, I'm hoping it's rock bottom. The last few weeks have been embarassing and I hope that professional pride kicks in, if nothing else and they start playing halfway decent. That's all I expect at this point. I'm now to the point where all I want is for them to be in games, not winning them. Sad.

[Herm]

They could, but being a chronic an incurable optimist I'll instead choose to focus on when and how I think the turnaround will happen:

It begins with 2-1 series win vs Reds. Crazy, high-scoring games. Jenkins continues hot streak and Hall, seeing those Reds jerseys, turns white-hot with 3 HR and 7 hits for the series. Cards win two of three vs Cubs, it's officially a three-horse race.

Defying season-long road woes, Crew manages to win 4 of 6 out west largely on the stregth of continued offensive hot streak. With Jenks and Hall hot, other hitters begin to relax a bit and become more effective. Average almost 7 runs per game for the AZ and SF series.

Strong offense and 6-3 stretch stops the bleeding and leads into Chi series with some renewed confidence. Sheets returns during the Cubs series plus pitching staff's relief at getting such good run support leads to a resurgent staff overall. Sweep the Cubs in Wrigley, with one pitchers duel, one no-doubt pasting, and one wind-blowing-out 12-9 game (finally producing a winner in that stupid "21" promo game from Potawatmi or whoever). Pinella spontaneously combusts in the dugout.

Last day of August produces a 8-0 whitewash of the Bucs, with Jack Wilson getting 4 hits and no one else reaching base. That's a 10-3 finish to what started out as a horrendous August. First half of September has Brewers facing the bottom half of the NL Central, and they capitalize with a 13-4 domination of the Pit, Hou, Cin home and away series. They close out the month with a 6-5 slate against Atl, StL, and SD. That's a 19-9 month, finishing the season at 91-71.

Life is good.

[SenatorShriv]

I hope so. I have been really optomistic until this series with the Cardinals. Taking the series against Cinci could go a long way towards turning things around. Even if the Red's are kind of weak, it would still be great to notch a couple of solid victories on the road. If they can build some momentum coming into Sheets's return, I think they'll be alright.

 

I think that part of the problem is that the team is so young, but that could work to their advantage in that a couple of quick victories could really change the mindset of the team. (Or at the very least change the mindset of the fans.)

[GAME05]

this is where i think Yost's value as a manager really is. he's supposed to be a super-positive clubhouse guy who doesn't get down, so maybe that positive energy will pick the young guys up and maybe we can avoid some long stretch of losses.

[RU Rah Rah]

this is where i think Yost's value as a manager really is. he's supposed to be a super-positive clubhouse guy who doesn't get down, so maybe that positive energy will pick the young guys up and maybe we can avoid some long stretch of losses.

They looked beaten-down yesterday, so he's got his work cut out for him.

2 out of 3 this weekend is a must, I think.

[Ennder]

This weekend is just huge, we are now in a situation where just hoping the Cubs suck as badly as we do isn't enough. The Cubs, the Cardinals and the Astros to some extent all have to suck in order for us to continue to play .500 ball and take the division. The season is starting to wind down and we are running out of time to turn things around.

[TauPentaRei]

I'll have one of what you're having JohnStumpy.

 

 

I thought rock bottom was going to be when Verlander peed on us.

 

I thought rock bottom was going to be the 83 to -4 pasting we got at Coors field that one day.

 

I think rock butt bottom is the Cardinals sweep, though the Brewers never cease to surprise.

[slack00]

2002 NLCentral Division

 Team W L WL% GB
STL 97 65 .599 --
HOU 84 78 .519 13.0
CIN 78 84 .481 19.0
PIT 72 89 .447 24.5
CHC 67 95 .414 30.0
MIL 56 106 .346 41.0 

(prettification http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif --1992)

[BrewCrewForever]

I think we have been rock bottom for awhile. We just cant seem to dig ourselves out. And when we think we did ala Braun's 3 run shot in Houston. We go back deeper in the bottom.

[Ennder]

May 9th - The end of the hot streak put us at 24-10 and the top of the world.

June 12th - Verlander's no hitter finish off a 10-20 stretch, rock bottom #1.

July 2nd - 10-3 victory @Pit to open the series finishes off a 14-4 stretch.

July 24th - Win @CIN finishes off a 8-10 stretch where we played good and bad games but managed to sit around .500.

August 16th - swept by the cardinals at home, first time we are swept at home all season. 6-15 in the past 21 games, rock bottom #2 hopefully.

 

While it seems like we haven't played good ball since May 9th we did have one really good run in late June and played relatively 'normal' ball for most of July. Lets hope this is rock bottom #2 and we pull off another 14-4 type stretch.

 

Many other teams have had stretches like this as well.

 

LAD - 4-15 from July 24th to Aug 14th.

DET - 4-14 from July 23rd to Aug 9th.

CLE - 6-12 from July 26th to Aug 14th.

BOS - 8-12 from June 25th to Jul 19th (they swept TB or it would have been worse!)

ATL - 14-25 from May 13th to Jun 24th.

[brewmann04]

I guess they have not reached bottom until they fall out of first behind the Cubs and Cards

[GenoSeligPrieb]

this is where i think Yost's value as a manager really is. he's supposed to be a super-positive clubhouse guy who doesn't get down, so maybe that positive energy will pick the young guys up and maybe we can avoid some long stretch of losses.

Yeah, that's what we all keep hearing. But if Ned's just oozing positive energy, then why does this team just seem to throw in the towel when things go wrong so very, very often?

 

I don't hate Ned, and I comprehend the fact that a manager only controls a 5-10% portion of how his team does. It's the players. Fine.

 

Disclaimers aside now, Ned's value certainly can't be predicated on his in-game managerial maneuvers, or his handling of the pitching staff. So it must be his motivational skills that are his bread-n-butter. And if a team looks this defeated whenever any kind of adversity rears its head, then his primary talent is not good enough to keep him here.

 

The worst part is, that this is NOT rock bottom. We're still in first place. Rock bottom will come if/when we fall out of 1st, and then out of the Wild Card, then perhaps below .500

 

And Ben? When the next dugout scuffle flares up, run into the stands or onto the field, if you have to.

[homer]

I thought Verlander's no no was rock bottom. Little did I know...

[brewmann04]

I would rather be any team there besides the Braves .those teams all have better records than the crumbling brew crew

[sheethead]

As a realist I would have to say no, the bottom will be hit when they are eliminated from playoff contention. Yost looks more and more scared with every camera shot, and will not be able to pull this team out of their funk. I honestly don't see them winning more than 15 games the rest of the way. I am going with the Johnny (Randy Quaid) pessimism from Major League II approach, "NO! You rotten bums! You overpaid weenies! Mild thing, you make my butt sting! I *detest* you! You're all garbage! All of ya! Back up the truck! Back it up!".

[RU Rah Rah]

My fear is that that once the team falls a game or two out of first place (I am sort of accepting that as inevitable), things might just completely crumble. On paper, it's still anybody's division, but I'm not totally sure that the Brewers possess the emotional mojo to battle back.

[Invader3K]

You can't really call it "rock bottom" since they are still in first place, but they have the worst record in the NL since July 1st, if I'm not mistaken. They really need to turn things around and finish up at least moderately strong in the final six weeks of the season to have hopes of retaining first and making the postseason. Otherwise, this is going to be an extremely disappointing season, and unlike last year, we won't be able to blame it on the numerous injuries. It will simply be bad play and sub-par performance on the field, coupled with arguably bad management.

 

They can turn it around, but it's up to the players to start winning at this point.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"My fear is that that once the team falls a game or two out of first place (I am sort of accepting that as inevitable), things might just completely crumble. On paper, it's still anybody's division, but I'm not totally sure that the Brewers possess the emotional mojo to battle back. "

 

 

Well said, Ru.

 

That's where I am, too, now. Although there were percentage points dropping them into 2nd place last week or so, they still never fully fell a 1/2 game out of 1st place, so perhaps psychologically, the players felt they still hadn't spit the bit. But it seems a long shot now that they'll retain their grip on 1st place, and once it comes, it'll be look out below.

 

I hope I'm proven wrong, but only Prince and Brauntosaurus seem to be responding positively to the pressure right now.

 

Where's SoupCan with all his grit? Estrada scolded the fans when they got upset with all this choking. Hardy, Hart, Capuano, Bush, CoCoCo, Hall, Wise and Turnbow have been shrinking violets in the face of adversity. The platoon in LF isn't even a shorter-term answer now. Hell, Weeks was not even really a major leaguer for a while there.

 

What could shake them out of this funk, and return to being professionals? Maybe it'll be Sheets, but who knows when/if he'll return?

 

Rock bottom won't be last place, or even 5th, but let's just say that if it comes, we'll wind up drafting ahead of the Astros.

[lumberrule]

On paper, it's still anybody's division, but I'm not totally sure that the Brewers possess the emotional mojo to battle back. "

 

I don't think "emotional mojo" has anything to do with it. I think its just the fact that the Brewers just aren't as good as the Cubs or the Cardinals.

 

Seriously...look at the 3 rosters right now for those three clubs. Sure, the Brewers might have good, young talent, but from top to bottom, both St. Louis and Chicago are just plain better than Milwaukee right now.

 

Milwaukee, in a way, got lucky when they played their hottest baseball the same time the Cubs were playing their worst, and when the Cardinals were absolutely decimated by injury. I don't think this roster is capable of playing a true .500 season, and that fact has been borne out by the way this team has played since that torrid 24-10 start (now 11 games under .500 since).

 

Milwaukee over-valued their starting rotation, did nothing to improve a punchless bench, and improved an area of their club (the back end of the bullpen) that really is the strongest area of the team. The weakest areas (second base, a fourth OF that can actually hit, another starting pitcher) weren't addressed by the club. And now the Brewers are paying for it.

 

As stated above in an earlier post, every team good or bad has stretches of poor play. However, those stretches are equaled out, or in most cases surpassed, by stretches of very good play...thus helping to "stop the bleeding", so to speak. The Brewers, since that 24-10 stretch, have not had another elongated stretch of solid play...thus, the slow bleed has continued now to the point where Milwaukee now has no more room for error. The teams that get the pitching in August and September go to the playoffs. That ain't happening here.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"As stated above in an earlier post, every team good or bad has stretches of poor play. However, those stretches are equaled out, or in most cases surpassed, by stretches of very good play...thus helping to "stop the bleeding", so to speak. "

 

I agree, lumber, and here's another reason I believe the Brewers have fallen on hard times.

 

Doug optimistically, incorrectly, thought he could rely on Ben Sheets to be the streak buster, when this young team gets down a bit. Of course, when healthy, Ben IS that kind of guy. You could lose 4 in a row, even 9 including his last start, but the team, the fans, everyone just KNEW that when your ace is going that day, that the losing streak would probably end, and positive momentuim could be restored.

 

But this past winter, at the risk of overpaying, they should have traded/bought a starting pitcher much better than a Suppan as our 2nd most experienced starter, ya know, just in CASE Ben Sheets somehow landed on the DL again. A solid vet like a Kelvim Escobar, or a Joe Blanton, a Javier Vazquez, a Derek Lowe or even a Greg Maddux!

 

I'm not saying specifically these guys, most of whom, if not all, were not made available ths past winter. But a veteran capable of consistent steady performance. Instead, Doug went with an always-rickety Sheets, a below-average vet in Suppan, and guys like Capuano, Bush and Vargas with spotty, inconsistent histories as starters. If Sheets was able to always give you 30-35 starts a year, then yes, rolling the dice on a Suppan may not have hurt as much. But they knew Sheets couldn't be counted on, and now we're seeing 2-game losing streaks turn into week-long descents into hell...

[WarhawkJoe]

How can you say that since the 24-10 start (which I'm sick of hearing about by the way, it's only 20% of the season!) we haven't had another stretch of good play? In June, they went 17-9 with a 5-game, 4-game, and 3-game win streak in there. In July (bad month overall at 11-16), they started 3-7 but then won 4 in a row and finished the month 8-9. Yes, August has been bad thus far (4-10), but 10 of the final 13 games in the month are against sub-500 teams giving us some hope, right?

 

I'm holding judgment on the season until it's over. Let's (try to) enjoy the ride. Go Crew!

[TauPentaRei]

Chicago anchored, I very rarely get into AM 620 zone to hear the abundant and relevant information passed along by Brewers 360 (?)... but a recent nugget managed to catch my ear that this is the year that Ned has decided to kick the tobacco out of his life. I gotta say that those sunflower seeds he gulps like Lohan pops anything small and white are not doing the trick. Ned, I was up your ass to get Jenkins more meaningful at-bats for the annual surge to the point of calling for Geoff in the 3 hole; I appreciate your malleability to make a change, and now I insist you stick the most cancerous, gooiest, texas-sized chaw in that cheek that you can farm from North Carolina. I will give you a poop-load of credit for personal health decisions or public relations ploys or whathaveyou. It is August; your personal dementia could use a decent buzz. Load it up, swirl it around, spit it out... laugh a little. Re-connect with the young'ns. If you indeed are a lame duck you might as well enjoy the farewell parade. And if you want that winning glory that can launch your Milwaukee celebrity above John McGlauchkghklin's... it's going to come from your head being in the right place. Relaxed. Altered. Atlanta lieutenant roots.

[EinhornIsFinkle]

Rock bottom will be when we finish with a worse record then we did last season and the cardinals make it into the playoffs with 83 wins again and for the second straight season we blew an easy chance to make the play-offs. If this team ever figures it out in the next few years the rest of the division might be better and we might not make the play-offs with 90 plus wins.