What is Arizona doing that we can't figure out?

[naivin]

Its defense, plain and simple (Having Webb doesn't hurt, but then again defense helps him too). The Brewers are pathetic defensively, the D-Backs are good. Bad defense means pitchers have to get more outs, throw more pitches, pitch with runner on. This in turn makes the starters' jobs tougher, leads to shorter starts, taxes the bullpen (who are also victimized by poor defense), and puts more pressure on the offense to score runs which leads to impatience, poor approaches at the plate etc. IMHO, if the Brewers were just average defensively, the NL Central race might already be decided in their favor.

[JohnBriggs12]

Having a ballpark with a deep CF, coupled with a very speedy OF, is over the course of a season going to prevent pitchers from wearing down mentally and they perform better.

 

Brewer pitchers in Miller Park and other cozy parks like Great American coupled with shaky defense, really can't ever relax. The Brewers also handicapped themselves when they went with 13 pitchers so long. That caused Counsell to become a primary PH, and prevented his use as a late inning defender.

[endaround]

Arizona is one of the greatest hitters park in the league. This year its at 1.075 vs .949 for Miller. Last year it was at 1.149 versus 1.004 for Miller. Miller is the epitome of a neutral park.

[Thurston Fluff]

Bob Melvin uses the scrubs when they're in a game down several runs late, which has led to a lot of blowout losses (the main reason their run differential is so bad). From Melvin's perspective, if he brings in a reliever to pitch in a situation where it's teetering on the brink of a blowout, and he gives up runs, that pitcher's going to stay out there to at least eat up some innings to save his better relievers for another day, no matter how bad they are pitching. The Dbacks scrub relievers probably have zero confidence because of it, but at least they know that they have a role, and will continue to get opportunities to pitch, and pitch well.

 

 

It obviously has worked for them but I'm not sure that's an option for teams who are supposed to be competetive. Melvin was working with house money in AZ because they weren't supposed to be good. If they miss the playoffs by one game some of those sacrificed games may come into question.

[TooLiveBrew]

Melvin was working with house money in AZ because they weren't supposed to be good. If they miss the playoffs by one game some of those sacrificed games may come into question.

I wholly disagree with the "house money" categorization. 'Supposed to' means squat in baseball. Our starting pitching was 'supposed to' be the best or among the best in the game this year. Have the D-backs been surprising? Sure, maybe to non-West Coast fans, but I don't buy for a minute that a manager's strategy is predicated (or somehow irrelevant - as you very sharply cover in the second line I've quoted) on how outsiders predict his team will do.

Whenever I see a discussion like this, I'm reminded of Jim Leyland's "You can't be afraid to lose today in order to win tomorrow" quip. One thing I noticed about B. Melvin is, as mentioned, his willingness to go with unconventional moves if they make sense for more than just one game.

 

[Thurston Fluff]

Toolive my point is it's easy to do things like waste games if the season is regarded as wasted to begin with. If Yost would have done that earlier in the year and it was percieved to have cost the Brewers some games he wouldn't get the same slack Melvin was given in AZ. He would have been roasted alive and probably fired instead of hailed as an innovative thinker. It's a no pressure situation when the expectations aren't there to begin with. It's entirely differant than the expectations of our pitching staff. Our staff was supposed to be good and help this team win a pennant are not, completly differant senario. I don't know the number of these supposed blowouts getting mopped up by one pitcher but if that number is anywhere league average I doubt that would explain how good the team has played. There just aren't that many games where one team stands no chance. Unless of course by no chance they mean down 4 runs in the sixth type of game. If that's the case I'd have to think Melvin has actually cost them a few games. Either that or he simply hasn't got very many viable relievers and he's forced to use crap pitchers. If that's the case then luck has as much to do with it as anything.

[TooLiveBrew]

Toolive my point is it's easy to do things like waste games if the season is regarded as wasted to begin with. If Yost would have done that earlier in the year and it was percieved to have cost the Brewers some games he wouldn't get the same slack Melvin was given in AZ. He would have been roasted alive and probably fired instead of hailed as an innovative thinker. It's a no pressure situation when the expectations aren't there to begin with. It's entirely differant than the expectations of our pitching staff. Our staff was supposed to be good and help this team win a pennant are not, completly differant senario. I don't know the number of these supposed blowouts getting mopped up by one pitcher but if that number is anywhere league average I doubt that would explain how good the team has played. There just aren't that many games where one team stands no chance. Unless of course by no chance they mean down 4 runs in the sixth type of game. If that's the case I'd have to think Melvin has actually cost them a few games. Either that or he simply hasn't got very many viable relievers and he's forced to use crap pitchers. If that's the case then luck has as much to do with it as anything.

Given that the D-Backs slithered out of April at 16-11, and exited May at 32-23, I fail to see how they didn't show they were for real early. In addition to that, I checked their game recaps, box scores, etc., and really couldn't find any more than a couple-few games where it looks like Melvin left a patsy in to get shelled - which doesn't seem that 'off-the-beaten-path' - they weren't games in which the D-Backs were only down 4 or so runs. I think what we may have here is simply a 'grass is greener' manager scenario. Seeing someone else try something (granted, merely in one game) we wish Ned would do a bit more of can lead to assumptions (I am quite guilty, as looking into it a bit more proved to me http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/frown.gif)

 

It just doesn't appear that Melvin has employed anywhere near a 'throw in the towel' type of strategy in order to save the 'pen, just that our (mine included) perceptions are skewed due to that favorite bf.net term: small sample space! http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif

[rluzinski]

While they certainly have some talent, I think they've also gotten their share of luck. I wouldn't be surprised if they played below .500 the rest of the way.

[True CryM]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but Arizona just traded away one of their top prospects for a future bullpen arm who's currently in AAA.

 

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[DHonks]

As others have said, we have awful defense, they have good defense. Throw in that their pitching has thrived while our's has struggled, and you have it figured out.

[SeriesFinale]

Arizona's probably wondering what the Crew is doing that they can't figure out...the Brewers are 5-1 against them so far this season.

[RyDogg66]

Bad Defense leads to average pitchers being below average. That is the Brewers. As Ender, or someone said above, Pitching and defense are related. bad defense leads to big innings. Even a lot more "earned runs" by fielders making mental mistakes or by being so bad that they cannot make plays on balls.

 

As someone else said, moving Hall, an average infielder to make room for two below average infielders, and turning Hall into a (slightly) below average CF has killed us. Mench, Hart and Fielder havent helped much, and its a track meet on the bases when Estrada catches.

[logan82]

I would have to say they have good pitching while ours has been a big dissapointment.

 

I think people who are terming Weeks as a below average defender are being a little over critical. I think a lot of that is carry over from early last year and his first year with Milwaukee when he actually was a poor defender. I guess a label is just really hard to shake. Also, while I agree that Braun is a below average defender I think he more than makes up for it with his bat.

 

EDIT: From what I have seen with Braun, he gets to balls really well and is a good fielder, but he has a hard time making throws to first.

[endaround]

No, he is below average. He's no longer an error every other game, but he has no range. He's not Durham or Kent bad, but he's still distinctly below average.

[Thurston Fluff]

End are you talking about Weeks range? I never really thought his range was below average. Is that something quantifiable or just your observation? Most defensive metrics seem to be flawed but I'm sure they have some validity in measuring range so if there is something objective it's worth posting so we could dissect it in the usual way.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif Weeks seems to be good around the bag when turning double plays and such. He has decent speed so he should be able to get to bloopers and grounders as well if not better than average. The only reason I could think of for his range to be below average is his reaction time.

[logan82]

I know they are subjective and flawed, but replacing Braun with a league average fielder at 3B drops 12 errors off of our total as a team. Doing that changes the total errors from a total of 91 to a total of 79 going from 4th most to 7th most and closer to the middle of the pack in the NL.

[endaround]

BP has Braun's defense at 9 runs below replacement and 16 runs below average. Basically a win below a replacement level 3B and two below an average one.