Does calling for the manager to be fired make you a bad fan?

[sgtcluels]

At the game last night I got into a conversation about if we should fire Yost or not. One of the reasons given to not fire Yost was that "It's giving up, and makes me a bad fan." So this is my questions, does calling for the manager of a team make you a bad fan?

 

This is NOT a should Yost be fired question, so lets please stay on topic.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't think so. At the end of the day, you are going to have devout fans that split on player A or manager B. -- most especially managers.

 

Let's take Chris Capuano -- On one hand you want to support him, and cheer him on to get that elusive win. On the other hand, at some point you have to wonder if Pitcher X could give the Brewers a better chance of winning.

 

I think it is "unrealistic" perhaps to expect a manager in Yost's situation would be fired in-season.

 

If Doug Melvin though thought that this team has given up on Yost, I hope he would fire him -- but that is something only DM would be able to ascertain, until after it was way too late to do anything.

[Bruce Ciskie]

At the game last night I got into a conversation about if we should fire Yost or not. One of the reasons given to not fire Yost was that "It's giving up, and makes me a bad fan." So this is my questions, does calling for the manager of a team make you a bad fan?

 

This is NOT a should Yost be fired question, so lets please stay on topic.

 

Depends. You shouldn't be calling on him to be fired because he had a bad day. Even the good ones will make an occasional mistake.

 

In general, there are very few "bad fans" out there, and they probably are just as likely to fall on either side of this debate.

[sheethead]

Simply put, no. If the manager at question: looks completely lost, cannot make decisions on his own, loses the interest of his players, cannot inspire his players, makes poor decisions routinely, patronizes fans to the point that he claims they don't "understand the game," and overall just doesn't get it... then only the good fans call for his firing. Its the bad fans that continue to apologize and feel sorry for the poor embattled leader. If you get paid to lead, and then precipitate to prove that you cannot do so, you should be fired. Plain and simple.

[FVBrewerFan]

I have never believed in trying to quantify how "good' or "bad" of a fan anyone is. If I dare to mention the Brewers aren't playing well, does that make me a bad fan? I would argue those that are critical actually CARE about what happens with the Brewers.

 

I think the mistake some people make is separating personal feelings from production. Some of the guys I like the most (Capuano, Suppan, Weeks, etc.) you can't help but be critical. It doesn't mean I'm not a "fan" of them. Or does it?

[Ennder]

I wouldn't say it makes you a bad fan at all. Yost is at best an average manager and could be below average. I don't see a compelling reason to fire him mid season but I won't lose sleep over it if he's gone at the end of the year either.

[Mr QL]

Does wanting the manager to be fired make you a bad fan? Absolutely not. Chanting "Fire Yost" on the other hand is more debatable. I wouldn't call it giving up though.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Bad fans are the ones who are always trying to start stuff, no matter how well the team is playing. That's the best actual definition I could take a guess at.

[decktard]

As one of the people you had the argument with... I think you're missing the point.

 

I just think it is too early to call for Yost's firing at this point. The Brewers are STILL in first and unless the team has a monumental implosion he's not going to get fired by the end of the year. I feel that the over all negativity, calling for a manager's head, booing, etc is just not constructive. Obviously the team has to get better in a hurry to make the playoffs... but we can't get new players and we're not going to get a new manager before the end of the season.

 

Therefore; wait until the season plays out. IF the Brewers do make the playoffs and have a huge push at the end... you're going to look like a fool. If they do crash and burn... well maybe you'll be "right" but I never said he shouldn't be fired... I'm just willing to see what happens.

[Brian the Automator]

At the game last night I got into a conversation about if we should fire Yost or not. One of the reasons given to not fire Yost was that "It's giving up, and makes me a bad fan." So this is my questions, does calling for the manager of a team make you a bad fan?

 

This is NOT a should Yost be fired question, so lets please stay on topic.

Depends on the context. If you're being obscene and vulgar at a game about it, then yeah, it's a problem. If you're saying "I don't think Yost is the right manager for the team", I think it's certainly a valid opinion, and doesn't make you any less of a fan. I'm admittedly very optimistic about my Brewers opinions, but I don't think people on the other side of the fence of me are "bad fans".

Bad people, yes. But bad fans, no.

 

[sheethead]

...unless the team has a monumental implosion he's not going to get fired by the end of the year.

 

And you say you were at the game last night? Unfortunately, I have been at many games and have seen most on TV, and the last 1 1/2 months seems to be a monumental implostion to me, IMO.

[decktard]

...unless the team has a monumental implosion he's not going to get fired by the end of the year.

 

And you say you were at the game last night? Unfortunately, I have been at many games and have seen most on TV, and the last 1 1/2 months seems to be a monumental implostion to me, IMO.

So you think it is a legitimate call to fire a first place manager in the middle of a pennant race 40 games from the end of the season then?

 

[Brian the Automator]

*nudge*

 

This has become a thread about a decision to fire Ned Yost, which was one of the specifically stated "non-goals" at the beginning of the thread. There are other threads where Ned's fate is being discussed.

[sheethead]

decktard[/b]]

sheethead[/b]]...unless the team has a monumental implosion he's not going to get fired by the end of the year.

 

And you say you were at the game last night? Unfortunately, I have been at many games and have seen most on TV, and the last 1 1/2 months seems to be a monumental implostion to me, IMO.

So you think it is a legitimate call to fire a first place manager in the middle of a pennant race 40 games from the end of the season then?

 

 

First let me say I am NOT one of the fans at the game screaming for the manager to get fired (although one of my friends is). However, I will gladly discuss in conversation my reasons for believing this manager should be fired - and there are many.

 

To answer your question, ordinarily I would say no, its not a legitimate call. However, you have to take into account the track record of the manager in question. If a manager's track record suggests the team annually plays like garbage down the stretch, then I think it can be a legitimate call. Realistically, there is no way this manager gets fired before the end of the year. This team will sink or swim with the current manager (most likely sink given the history), and he will most certainly not be back next year.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Calling for Yost's replacement doesn't make you a bad fan any more than calling for an impeachment (and notice I didn't say of whom, so's not to anger anyone) makes you a bad American. Hell, I've seen it covered ad nauseam in other threads, but I don't think it makes you a bad fan for booing your own team when they're playing like bums. Everyone is a big boy here and if they're the kind that will wilt under what little pressure the chronically- and insanely-forgiving fans of Wisconsin lightly heap upon them, then they'd likely be better suited to be a hallroom monitor or a taffy apple puller. Yost is fair game. Fire away, I say.

[Irish Brewer]

No, I don't think it makes you a bad fan or any less of a fan if you want the manager to be fired. The key is to keep it with reason...discussing the topic amongst friends or other fans such as in this forum is certainly ok, but showing up to a game(and yes I saw one of these signs last night at the game) with a sign saying "Fire Yost" doesn't necessarily fit the bill for me. When you are at the game, the focus should be on the game itself, not any of the other intangibles involved with the team.

[decktard]

Realistically, there is no way this manager gets fired before the end of the year. This team will sink or swim with the current manager (most likely sink given the history), and he will most certainly not be back next year.

And that is my point about the whole argument (to return us back to the topic, Dan). Right now calling for his firing in this situation at this point is just negative background noise. I'm down with discussions such as "If the Brewers finish with a sub .500 record Yost needs to go" and "Well we didn't make the playoffs, what is the problem, was it Yost?" But just running around complaining that the sky is falling and Yost needs to go NOW while we're still in total competition for a division title when things aren't going to change is pointless.

Knowing Sgt in real life I've seen how his outlook has become progressively negative in a situation that just isn't going to change. So I'm trying to enjoy it the best I can... and that means having hope. Because like Yost or not we still have as good a chance (if not better) than anyone in the division.

 

Talk to me about making a change after the season... I'll be a lot more receptive to that conversation when it actually means something.

[lukevan]

No it doesn't make a bad fan. I don't like the fans that talk about a manager being so bad that he's running the team into the ground, it just sounds like an excuse for the players to me. Ned is an adequate manager, a bit too old-school for my taste but he has done well with a young team.

[1992casey]

Fire away, I say.

Please note Brian's post above.

*nudge*

This has become a thread about a decision to fire Ned Yost' date=' which was one of the specifically stated "non-goals" at the beginning of the thread. There are other threads where Ned's fate is being discussed.[/quote']There's a general Yost thread in the designated threads list for catch-all Yost stuff. Also, the Yost tag (at the top of the Major League forum) lists specific threads that are available for comments. Any new threads pertaining to Ned should be outside of the scope of the designated thread or those listed under the tag. sgtcluels has met those requirements by posting about fans.

[sheethead]

Talk to me about making a change after the season... I'll be a lot more receptive to that conversation when it actually means something.

 

Good points, but it still doesn't make you a bad fan if you want the manager to be fired. I want the manager to be fired, but I just don't get all passionate about it. At the end of the day it's Doug Melvin's decision to make, and I have faith that he will make the right decision.

[Tbadder]

Actually this is one of the central questions of Brewerfan.net. What constitutes a "bad fan"? And is this website a place for "bad fans." As a newbie here, I gotta say everyday I find something interesting and thoughful and fun, but one time I begged to disagree with the inner sanctum of long time posters here, and I was hit with "bad fan" accusations, and "you make me sick" comments. Before I could respond the thread was locked up suspiciously (a dialogue wasn't even started). So where I'm sitting just asking the question out loud "does it make you a bad fan to wish or hope that Yost is fired" is both brave of you and necessary. In my book Yost has done what it takes to get fired, so the question isn't a "bad fan" question as much as it is a "concerned fan" question, and therefore it can't make you a "bad fan."

 

And just to reiterate, what a great place this is. Other fan sites are usually filled with stupid, poop throwing, posters who just want to be obnoxious.

[sheethead]

Tbadder wrote:

And just to reiterate, what a great place this is. Other fan sites are usually filled with stupid, poop throwing, posters who just want to be obnoxious.

Poop throwing probably indicates a "bad fan." http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/tongue.gif

[1992casey]

"You make me sick" and "bad fan" comments are certainly something Brewerfan doesn't want on its forums. "You make me sick" is a definite violation of condescension rules (most likely a strike violation), and calling a member a "bad fan" is a probable violation.

[decktard]

Talk to me about making a change after the season... I'll be a lot more receptive to that conversation when it actually means something.

 

Good points, but it still doesn't make you a bad fan if you want the manager to be fired. I want the manager to be fired, but I just don't get all passionate about it. At the end of the day it's Doug Melvin's decision to make, and I have faith that he will make the right decision.

"Bad" fan is maybe a term that could be taken in the improper way.

 

Sgt, for example, is still very much a Brewers fan. But right now his negativity has really made him a tough fan to be around. It is also hard to have a rational conversation with him about the remainder of the season and the future of the team.

So... I don't think the term "bad" is interchangeable with "not a fan" like some are taking it. But in the context it was used it did mean "You're a real ***** downer."

 

(Note: as it directly refers to a cuss, "*****" violates forum language rules --1992casey)

[Invader3K]

I don't think it makes you a bad fan, but calling for the firing of a manager whose team is still in first place probably makes you a non-realist.