Prince suspended 3 games (Update: Now 2 games, sits 8/24 and 8/25)

[M Skjellyfetti]

Or if he wanted to throw him out just do it and walk away from Prince, rather than toward him.

From what I saw, it looked like he heard Prince say something right before he walked away (I'm going to go ahead and assume that something wasn't the most pleasant thing ever), followed him and ejected him because of what he said. As a referee for a different sport, I don't usually agree with a lot of what umpires tend to do, but I completely agree with him for this one. He had no choice but to follow Prince to eject him, otherwise he's standing by the plate and trying to eject a player who has his back turned on him and is 6 yards away. That would be an absolute disaster.

[deeswan]

I can't imagine it would drop to 1 game with an appeal. He could get a game knocked off, but not 2. He'll probably appeal now, then serve it when they will face back-to-back LH starters or something like that. Maybe against Pittsburgh?

[Bruce Ciskie]

From what I saw, it looked like he heard Prince say something right before he walked away (I'm going to go ahead and assume that something wasn't the most pleasant thing ever), followed him and ejected him because of what he said. As a referee for a different sport, I don't usually agree with a lot of what umpires tend to do, but I completely agree with him for this one. He had no choice but to follow Prince to eject him, otherwise he's standing by the plate and trying to eject a player who has his back turned on him and is 6 yards away. That would be an absolute disaster.

Why would that be a disaster? Umpires throw out players who are sitting with their teammates in the dugout. There's not much reason to think that Bell had to follow Prince, and there's certainly no good reason for him to have been yelling back at Prince the whole time.

No defense of Prince, who acted immaturely, but Bell couldn't have handled that much worse unless he had taken a swing at Prince.

[M Skjellyfetti]

A guy has to see himself being ejected. If an official is so timid that the guy doesn't even realize he's ejected, that's just plain unprofessional and asking for trouble throughout the rest of the game once the ejection finally gets cleared up. And as for the ump yelling at him, I guess I didn't see it. What I saw was him say "What did you just say?" and then boot Prince. I'm with you, I think it's really stupid that baseball umpires feel the need to be involved in arguments/shouting matches with players and coaches, particularly after the guy's already been thrown out. I just didn't see that in this incident (or just don't remember it because it was a while ago).

[Bruce Ciskie]

A guy has to see himself being ejected. If an official is so timid that the guy doesn't even realize he's ejected, that's just plain unprofessional and asking for trouble throughout the rest of the game once the ejection finally gets cleared up. And as for the ump yelling at him, I guess I didn't see it. What I saw was him say "What did you just say?" and then boot Prince. I'm with you, I think it's really stupid that baseball umpires feel the need to be involved in arguments/shouting matches with players and coaches, particularly after the guy's already been thrown out. I just didn't see that in this incident (or just don't remember it because it was a while ago).

1. I've umped before and have never heard of that. In fact, my supervisor told me I could eject a guy who was walking away from me if he was excessively mouthy. If there is a crowd, well that's a good time to use the number on the back of a guy's shirt. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

2. I saw Bell continuing the argument past the point it needed to go. Once he tossed Prince, and Prince knew he was tossed, all he had to do was stay at the dish and let Prince walk away. Unfortunately, Bell saw the need to keep it going.

[lcbj68c]

I think it is funny how many of my fellow posters want to place even partial blame on the umpire. The instigator was Prince Fielder for running his mouth as he was walking away. There is no responsibility on Bell's part to just stand there and take the verbal abuse. Then Prince turns around and decides to continue to try and get the last word and again turns to walk away. Bell ejects him and walks towards him. Walking toward the player is NOT an aggressive move on Bell's part, he only wanted to make sure Prince could hear him as Prince kept trying to run away after getting the last word. Mr. Bell was doing his job, Prince should have been doing his like a professional and walked back to the dugout to have a seat. Mumble something under your breath as you walk away if you want, but don't expect to try and show up an umpire and then get in his face after the ejection. As an umpire myself, I wouldn't have expected any less from Bell.

[M Skjellyfetti]

I've never umped, but in my experience from other stuff, it could just create a lot of confusion--especially when there's a loud crowd--if an umpire doesn't get a guy's attention before tossing him. And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, I haven't seen this incident since it happened, so I probably forgot the specifics.

[afeter]

One poster stated it is crazy to suspend him 3 days for the altercation. Is there precedent for this length? Does MLB have a set of rules that govern these decisions?

I watched the game, and Prince overreacted. Maybe it was the culmination of all the poor umpiring in the series but he went crazy. He was downright scary. In fact i was waiting for Prince to jack the guy. If this suspension is a bit longer than normal, maybe its becuase MLB also thought Prince was really close to doing something drastic. Obviously this is my subjective interpretation of how it unfolded. Other people may have viewed it as a normal baseball argument, but in my opinion it was really close to getting out of hand.

[lcbj68c]

The 3 games handed down is probably a part of knowing it is going to be made lower by appeal. Similiar to the maximum penalties set by the courts for crimes. If you want a guy to serve 2 years in prison, you give him 5 and know by the time he takes a deal it will end up being 2 years.

[giffted1]

Just a stupid move on both sides. Prince should have shut his mouth and walked to the dugout. The pitch wasn't that bad anyway. The ump didn't need to say anything to Prince, and a 3 game suspension is insanity.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yost was a little slow in getting out there, so he deserves some of the blame. But I'm sorry, the umpire took off his mask and yelled at Fielder as he was walking away. That's where he crossed the line. This isn't a high school game or a college game. The umpires know what's at stake for these players. Umpires have been taking verbal abuse for decades without players being suspended. Major league umpires are well compensated. Yes, they spend 7-8 months away from home, but then get a 4-5 month vacation.

 

Fielder should appeal and I think it will get downgraded to one or two games max. I'd have him time it so it comes against Pittsburgh when they are scheduled to go back to back with Gorzelanny and Maholm.

 

Even the argument that Fielder might have incited the crowd is moot because he was on the road.

 

As for the pitch, generally it's not that one pitch that sets a guy off. It's usually several pitches over the course of a game that sets a guy off and Bell was particularly bad that entire game. Sometimes it's a carry over from previous games and even other umpires. Heck you don't think the Brewers players griped about that called 3rd strike to Hart that was a foot off the plate the night before?

[hauser42]

Prince went after an umpire those guys are really off limits. He was really in his face and came close to contact several times with him. I dont understand how Bill Hall could not be a leader and jump in and try to come him down. It took Yost a while to lumber out of the dugout and only the hustle and mucsle of Ed Sedar kept him back. I think it will be 3 games no matter what, Lee didn't land a punch or he might have gotten more.

 

I'm ok with Prince showing is emotions, this teams needs to show they are hungry once a while. They seem to be a bunch of robots until they come from behind and win a game. Other night I thought Braun should have rolleed the cather at the play at the plate but he help up. First thought was would Prince added another catcher to his resume.

[JohnBriggs12]

"He was really in his face"

 

Ned's been in guy's faces in similar fashion a number of times without being suspended. The suspension is ludicrous.

[bucksman4]

Does anyone know where I can find tape of this chewing out by Prince?

[Ennder]

Lee didn't land a punch or he might have gotten more

 

Lee sucker punched Young and then ran behind his manager like a girl, but he definitely landed a punch... well more of a slap.

[Yaz]

Wow Lee gets 5 games for hitting someone. And then proceeds to appeal. Major League Baseball for whatever reason then decides they will not hear the appeal to allow the Cubs to make up lost ground in the division. And then finally after that month Lee hurts himself and decides he will just go ahead and drop the appeal and serve his time.

 

Now Prince argues with an ump and gets 3 games. I bet the sentence won't be reduced and MLB will hear the appeal probably by the weekend. Ironic isn't it?

[BrewCrewForever]

After the appeal, Prince should get it down to about 1 or 2 games. Then you play Joe Dillon at 1B those games and hope the rest of the offense picks up some slack for those games.

[TooLiveBrew]

So for a total late-comer, the appeal process takes quite a while, no? Any word on when he will actually serve the game(s)?

[Fatter than Joey]

Now Prince argues with an ump and gets 3 games.

 

Isn't MLB contending that Prince "bumped" an ump? -- I don't think he is being suspended strictly for the arguing.

[Paul77]

I think it is funny how many of my fellow posters want to place even partial blame on the umpire. The instigator was Prince Fielder for running his mouth as he was walking away. There is no responsibility on Bell's part to just stand there and take the verbal abuse. Then Prince turns around and decides to continue to try and get the last word and again turns to walk away. Bell ejects him and walks towards him. Walking toward the player is NOT an aggressive move on Bell's part, he only wanted to make sure Prince could hear him as Prince kept trying to run away after getting the last word. Mr. Bell was doing his job, Prince should have been doing his like a professional and walked back to the dugout to have a seat. Mumble something under your breath as you walk away if you want, but don't expect to try and show up an umpire and then get in his face after the ejection. As an umpire myself, I wouldn't have expected any less from Bell.

That is the exact point I was trying to make in the "confrontation" thread. Even Bill Schorders initial comments reflected this opinion.

 

Anyone who saw this unfold on TV could see that Prince was going to get ejected, that he was the aggressor - before the ump did anything. There might not be an explicit rule on the books that states that the batter can't argue balls and strikes (even though every tv & radio personality that covers the game seems to think so), but for Prince to act surprised when he got tossed (go back and watch, he can't believe it) and then go into a rage where he needs to be held back by three people...come on.

 

I respect everyones opinion on this matter, really I do, but I don't know how someone can blame the Ump for this. And Yost? Maybe (I'll concede a maybe here because it's a matter of opinion) the umpire was out of line for following Price but he "earned" his ejection well before the ump took one step in his direction.

 

[Paul77]

Now Prince argues with an ump and gets 3 games.

 

Isn't MLB contending that Prince "bumped" an ump? -- I don't think he is being suspended strictly for the arguing.

No mention of umpire contact in the official Press Release from Major League Baseball.

 

"Prince Fielder of the Milwaukee Brewers has been suspended for three games and fined an undisclosed amount for his inappropriate and aggressive conduct during the top of the eighth inning of his Club's game against the Houston Astros at Minute Maid Park on Sunday, Aug. 12."

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm sorry, the umpire took off his mask and yelled at Fielder as he was walking away. That's where he crossed the line. This isn't a high school game or a college game. The umpires know what's at stake for these players. Umpires have been taking verbal abuse for decades without players being suspended. Major league umpires are well compensated. Yes, they spend 7-8 months away from home, but then get a 4-5 month vacation.

 

...

 

As for the pitch, generally it's not that one pitch that sets a guy off. It's usually several pitches over the course of a game that sets a guy off and Bell was particularly bad that entire game. Sometimes it's a carry over from previous games and even other umpires. Heck you don't think the Brewers players griped about that called 3rd strike to Hart that was a foot off the plate the night before?

The logic that umps should sit back & 'take it' makes my skin crawl. I've put up with more than my fair share of horrible crap just umping beer league softball. I can't even imagine how much MLB umps let slide, without even a mention of it to us, the public. No matter what the sport, the fans & players always seem to expect an umpire to be perfect his first game, and then even better from there on out. Not to mention the 20,000+ 'better' umpires who always clearly had a better look at the play.

 

I'm a huge Prince fan, and an even bigger Brewers homer. I haven't seen the play, but it sounds like Prince needed to put the team ahead of his own (even if it was a collective frustration of all teammates) frustration. Even if the call(s) were bad, you just have to accept that human error as a part of having human umpires. They do a darn good job nearly every single game - it's not like you see players thanking or congratulating umps. When they're perfect, it's supposedly 'expected.' When not, it's seemingly the biggest gaffe ever.

 

Umpires are instantly the villains in most player-ump arguments, just because they aren't who we're rooting. The problem I have here is that MLB umpires are so good it's disgusting, and they still have to put up with whiny players on a constant basis (good calls or bad).

 

Example: I went to a Portland Beavers (SD AAA) v. Sacramento River Cats (Oak. AAA) game. In it, the relatively-recently demoted Jeff DaVanon (Sac.) got wrung up on a solid 2-2 changeup. It may well have been borderline high, but nowhere near enough to not be hacking with two strikes. He did everything in his power to get run - turning fully around, facing the umpire, then 'walking away' whilst keeping his head (& fat mouth) pointing back at the ump, jawing the whole way. This ump was solid the whole time I watched, and DaVanon had no reason to complain. This is just a slice of the crap umps take on a daily basis. Just as the call that set Prince off wasn't the first, I'm sure Prince's jawing wasn't the first this ump took from our squad.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Prince has no history of behavior that recklessly endangers the team. He gets a pass on this, by my mind. The timing's bad, but one day off in the stretch may not be such a bad thing. I agree that Yost should have protected his franchise player more, but more than likely he was probably daydreaming about his NASCAR fantasy picks for the day or how he was going to have Estrada lay down a drag bunt. Whoops. Wrong thread.

[RightFieldCoder]

There might not be an explicit rule on the books that states that the batter can't argue balls and strikes (even though every tv & radio personality that covers the game seems to think so

 

Rule 9.02

(a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.

Rule 9.02(a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game. [this is itallicized in the rules]

 

and Rule 9.01

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

 

So if a player doesn't go directly from the box to the dugout, he is in violation of the first rule. "Unsportsmanlike conduct or language" is also an ejectable offense and it is hard to think that Prince did not say some "unsportsmanlike" words. Sure, an umpire takes some naughty words from players without ejecting them, but the rule says each umpire has the authority not that he has to eject them. It was probably a case of both teams yelling at the umps for the entire series and Prince's comment made him finally snap to envoke this rule. It sucks that it was Prince and not a lesser player or an Astro but that is the chance you take every time you talk to an ump like that.

[splitterpfj]

I thought this one was pretty obvious, when you get that animated, in a dispute with an umpire, you're going to sit. I do think the umpire mishandled the situation, but Prince was way over the top.