Why is Bill Hall escaping our collective wrath?

[RU Rah Rah]

AJAY brought this up in the vent thread, and I think it merits a separate discussion of its own.

 

I am not someone who reflexively wants to trade every guy who slumps for two weeks, but I'm more than mildly disappointed with Billy's production thus far (taking into account his DL stint, of course). Although I didn't realistically expect 30+ bombs again this year, I certainly thought that he would out-homer Graffy and Felipe Lopez. (Right now, he's tied for 74th in the NL in homers. 3TO is breathing down his neck.)

 

I'm not necessarily suggesting that we somehow need to complain about Billy, but I'm surprised that people aren't more concerned / irate about his lack of production, especially after his new, lucrative deal.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think that the change to CF probably affected his offensive production.

[Ennder]

Yeah Hall has been pretty terrible this year. I expected him to struggle some with the position move but its been worse than I expected. Good news is we still face the Reds three times!

[homer]

Billy seems like he doesn't adjust well when he's struggling so he slumps for long periods. He was just starting to hit when he hurt his ankle and he's been pretty blah since he came back. He's a big reason the offense has been slumping and also why I am starting Tulowitski over him in fantasy http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[JJHardy7]

Yea he's been disappointing, but we're still in ok shape and if he gets hots or plays like last year at all he could be a "deadline" move we didn't have to make. The leg injury was too bad. It looked like he was at least starting to see the ball better. Have pitchers maybe figured him out?

[uecker9]

Yeah too bad we didn't have a Bill Hall in CF experiment thread or is Bill Hall cocky thread. Totally under the radar.

[BrewCrewForever]

Very dissapointing. My gut tells me that he will come back next season strong and look more like the Bill Hall of 2006. This season has just kind of become a wash for him. His defense has improved quite a bit which is good.

[lukevan]

Hall was such a fan favorite last season (big numbers yes, but also because of a few key moments of heroism) that it's not surprising he doesn't get as much flak as say Weeks does. Imagine what Hall's numbers last year would be doing for this team right now.

[JJHardy7]

Hall didn't rake in the minors like Weeks did though either. And he wasn't a first round pick. Pressure comes with the territory for Weeks. Hall's year last year may have been a career year, but in most minds Weeks at one point was thought to be able to put those numbers up consistently.

[uecker9]

Speaking of players escaping the wrath- what has Hart done since June?

[brettac1]

He had that awesome catch in the Philly game and hit that triple in the Astros game.

 

Some fans will ignore when a guy is terrible 98% of the time when that other 2% when he's good is considered to be "clutch time". I call this the Scott Brosius effect.

 

Hall got this same benefit in 2004, when he was awful but had those two games against the Reds in April.

[RU Rah Rah]

Speaking of players escaping the wrath- what has Hart done since June?

.728 OPS, which is nothing to brag about, since July 1. But Billy is .579 over the same stretch.

 

[uecker9]

So all Hall needs is an awesome catch and a triple and he'll be OK?

Hart is hitting .211 with 33 strikeouts and 6 walks since June. Throw in a few solo shots in already decided games and he's fine?

I don't think so.

[brettac1]

I know. It's silly, but that's how it works.

[hauser42]

I don't believe Hall is struggling as bad as most people think he is. Reason is he has played over his head the last two years and people thought it was going to be the norm. He might be a solid player but his stats are going to be closer year in and year out to 2005 than any season. Hall Love started to increase with the Pink Bat homerun and then his other late game homeruns last year, a very average player has a career year and people went nuts.

 

Think about it all offseason people posted that Hall should be starting over Hardy at SS, now look at how things have workded out. Hardy has showed he can play better with the glove and arm, his bat still needs to stay around all season but is better than Hall's this year.

 

Hall has played CF for almost 3/4 of a season now, the move should not be causing him an issue at the plate. I don't get this argument, because a player should come to the plate to hit and not with a glove. You dont take a bat out to play CF. He still is no better than an below average CFer right now. Too many balls are dropping in from of him because he is not getting a good jump. His diving stabs at balls coming in is just flat out stupid and is going to cost the team games, play the safe way and allow a single instead of a triple.

 

There is a lot of Hall Love on this site #1 reason for him not getting harped on this season. Lat year he was a perennial all star according to some posters on this site, so his backers are not going to let the cat out of the bag that he is having a poor season.

[crewcrazy]

I think the Scott Brosius Effect has something to do with it...while he hasn't hit well for most of the season, he's still somehow found a way to come up big in "clutch" situations -- he's had a couple grand slams earlier this year, he had a big ground rule double that prevented the Brewers from giving up Tom Glavine's 300th win and another ground rule double that was big in Houston recently, and he's made some incredible catches in CF this year. That probably shouldn't excuse him from our collective "wrath", but I think a lot of fans are willing to give Billy a pass for this season.

 

Hart's also been hit-and-miss recently (big catches against Houston and Philly, RBI triple in Houston, but otherwise bad since the end of June), but I think he's been getting a pass since he's still been playing some pretty good defense and because he was so good when he first stepped into the leadoff spot for Rickie in June while Weeks was on the DL. Hitting him 5th or 6th is probably the best option right now, though, since he's cooled off considerably and doesn't exactly have a sexy OBP.

[hauser42]

I think the Scott Brosius Effect has something to do with it...while he hasn't hit well for most of the season, he's still somehow found a way to come up big in "clutch" situations -- he's had a couple grand slams earlier this year, he had a big ground rule double that prevented the Brewers from giving up Tom Glavine's 300th win and another ground rule double that was big in Houston recently, and he's made some incredible catches in CF this year. That probably shouldn't excuse him from our collective "wrath", but I think a lot of fans are willing to give Billy a pass for this season.

 

Hart's also been hit-and-miss recently (big catches against Houston and Philly, RBI triple in Houston, but otherwise bad since the end of June), but I think he's been getting a pass since he's still been playing some pretty good defense and because he was so good when he first stepped into the leadoff spot for Rickie in June while Weeks was on the DL. Hitting him 5th or 6th is probably the best option right now, though, since he's cooled off considerably and doesn't exactly have a sexy OBP.

As many incredible catches he has made he has made twice as many blunders, that could have been avoided if he would have taken a safe route and allowed it to be a single. Part of this is his being a starting CFer for the first time, but this deep in the season he should be better at judging the ball, and when to take a chance.

 

A lot of fans are SportCenrerized in that a guy makes a great catch or get a walk of hit, and his last month of terrinle play is all forgotten. It doesn't work that way, this is why Jenkins is also loved, he always gets hot at the end of the season and every off season people think he will play like that for the better part the next season how he started.

[bigbrewkahuna]

There is a simple solution to the Bill Hall issue in CF.Next year move him back to being a super sub utility guy and get a real outfielder instead.I didn't have a good feeling about Hall as a full time CF'er this pre season.I haven't had a real good feeling watching him so far this year.

Have Doug do the right thing.Next winter,apologize if they must to Bill for moving him around again,but back to being a super sub he goes.Tell him his talents are being squandered when he is not a super sub player and that is how he can help this team the most.

[MNBrew]

Other than Braun and possibly Fielder, you could make a case that every position player has had major stretches of underperforming:

 

Jenkins/Mench -- not bad overall, but not the collective "thumper" we need out of LF

Hall -- generally underproducing all year

Hart -- very solid overall, but laced with longer spurts of little production

Hardy -- little offense since mid-May

Weeks -- see Hall

Estrada -- not bad, but not at all hitting up to his capabilities

Graffanino & Counsell -- very poor BA, generally limited offensive contributions otherwise

Miller -- doing about what you'd expect for a Brewers back-up catcher

 

The fact is, even when the pitching wasn't calamitous, the offense has been overall pretty suspect since mid-May. And now that the pitching keeps digging bad holes, the lack of consistent offense is even more obvious. The sad thing is that it wouldn't seem to take that much better of a contribution on both sides of the ball to be running away with this division, relatively speaking. Let's hope....

[hauser42]

There is a simple solution to the Bill Hall issue in CF.Next year move him back to being a super sub utility guy and get a real outfielder instead.I didn't have a good feeling about Hall as a full time CF'er this pre season.I haven't had a real good feeling watching him so far this year.

Have Doug do the right thing.Next winter,apologize if they must to Bill for moving him around again,but back to being a super sub he goes.Tell him his talents are being squandered when he is not a super sub player and that is how he can help this team the most.

 

He would not get enough playing time if you go back to this. Braun is not going to sit much, if Hardy should only sit if his bat turns into paper mache for a long stretch. 2B might be a spot if Weeks doesn't prove himself. Too many times Yost has sat down his players this year to get rest, he better just let them play the rest of this year. It would not be fair to Hall to have him move form Inf to OF during the season and there just aint enough ABs for him in the infield.

[bigbrewkahuna]

You might be right about the lack of at bats for hall if he was a utility guy next year.But Graffy may be done for good.Weeks is still a big mystery.JJ's snapping tendon may snap again.And perhaps Hall shouldn't get 500 + atbats.

[homer]

Hall Love started to increase with the Pink Bat homerun and then his other late game homeruns last year, a very average player has a career year and people went nuts

So if we can expect him to hit at 2005 levels (.291/.342/.495) which is way above average for a SS or a CF, then he is most definitely struggling as bad as people think he is (.261/.324/.422)

[logan82]

Bill Hall has been getting a free pass since the 3rd game of the year when he struck out while down by a run with no outs and a runner on 2nd. I expected more from him to be honest. I don't buy the position move angle to his lack of production. He moved all over the field in 2005 and 2006, never knowing if he was going to be starting or come off the bench and he had pretty productive seasons. I expected him to have a year with similar numbers to last year except with around 20-25 HR's.

 

The thing that makes this year much less surprising is the fact that even in those good years he struck out quite a bit. He just looks like he is guessing on pitches when he isn't hitting. I guess this year is dissapointing, but not surprising.

 

By the way, I never thought he was a better fielder than Hardy. He just made some plays look really spectacular. I think he was a SC darling last year and is still this year so his many misplays are overshadowed by his few spectacular plays.

 

EDIT: I would like to add that up until very recently every time you started a thread about Hall that was the slightest bit negative, there were many people that acted like you insulted their wife. It led to many pointless and very tiring discussions.

[MNBrew]

Yount was no Gold Glover when he first moved to the outfield, either. In fact, his arm/shoulder hadn't recovered enough at the start of whatever year his OF switch happened that they started him in LF, expecting that by around mid-year he could finally handle the switch to CF. Sure enough, that's what happened.

 

Now I'm not suggesting Bill Hall will become another Robin Yount. What I am saying, however, is this: Hall has definitely improved in the field as the season has gone on. As much as Hall has stunk at the plate, it would seem to take something much more disastrous than a hitting slump for the Brewers to back off their plan of Hall being the CF of the present and future.

[Baldkin]

It's almost as if Billy read this thread and decided to try to appease some people tonight.

 

He's been bad. That's tough for me to admit, as I'm the biggest Bill Hall fan out there.

 

He does have 30 doubles this year, and he'd just found his stroke before he went on the DL, which is a shame. Hopefully, after a good game tonight, he'll find it again.