8/14/2007: Cardinals (Wells) vs. Brewers (Capuano) 7:25 CT - Tribute to the great memories of Rafael Roque IGT

[JohnBriggs12]

"We were a minor league ball club in those years".

 

That team wasn't all that bad. The pitching was bad but the everyday lineup included some pretty good players: Vina, Loretta, Belliard, Cirillo, Burnitz, Jenkins, Nilsson, Grissom, Valentin. Even Alex Ochoa hit .300 that year. I wouldn't call those guys "minor leaguers". Overall as a team they batted .273 and averaged 5.03 runs per game which is about a quarter of a run per game better than the current outfit. The team OPS in 99 was .779 which is identical to the 2007 version.

 

Put those guys in the NL Central of today, and they are contenders.

[BrewCrewForever]

Come on Chris, get that first W since May. Lets get him some runs boys! I will not be able to watch since Im attending a advance screening of Superbad.

[GormanHarvey]

I will not be able to watch since Im attending a advance screening of Superbad.

And you call yourself a fan?http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif

[brewerjamie15]

I'm back. My little hiatus has come to a close, I feel better. I can go the distance now.

The team was 2-1 w/o me, so maybe I just need to go away now though? Heck, maybe I could go follow th Cu.... No, even I'm not tough enough to do that for the team.

[yogallardo43]

Lineups

 

Milwaukee

 

Weeks 2B

Hardy SS

Fielder 1B

Braun 3B WHY move him?!

Jenkins LF

Hart RF

Hall CF

Estrada C

Cappy P

 

I am really worried that this is going to hurt us in the long term. Braun has shown at times that he tends to chase bad pitches from time to time and without Prince behind him he could be seeing that. Why Ned? Why?

 

Fire him now!

[sheethead]

I personally would be fine if I never heard "1982" again.

 

I can only imagine the Cardinals watching this "ceremony" from the visitors dugout, chomping at the bit to beat down a team that is celebrating a World Series defeat at the hands of their very own organization. Great planning Brewer marketing team! Way to boost morale by celebrating a team that lost to the team you are playing. Glad I am not there tonight, I would feel embarrassed for the '82 teamates. Please let this be the last year these 50-something ex-players get trotted out there in celebration of the franchise's most bitter sweet moments, PLEASE!!!!

 

Edit: Just saw the lineup posted, and I think i am going to be ill before the "celebration" even takes place. I don't really hate too many people, but Ned is making it really hard. The ONLY positive is that DP Estrada is batting 8th. Its like Ned is trying to solve a puzzle, and changes 4 pieces to get one more right, but in turn creates 3 more wrong pieces.

[thablingster]

So Hardy hits 8th for 2 games and is right back in the 2 hole? Great.

 

Ned probably moved Fielder to break up the lefty-lefty with Fielder and Jenkins since Braun mashes lefties. Estrada hitting 8th? Yuck. He'll never see a strike, and he'll make all of the non-strikes he sees strikes, lol.

[thablingster]

I personally would be fine if I never heard "1982" again.

 

I can only imagine the Cardinals watching this "ceremony" from the visitors dugout, chomping at the bit to beat down a team that is celebrating a World Series defeat at the hands of their very own organization. Great planning Brewer marketing team! Way to boost morale by celebrating a team that lost to the team you are playing. Glad I am not there tonight, I would feel embarrassed for the '82 teamates. Please let this be the last year these 50-something ex-players get trotted out there in celebration of the franchise's most bitter sweet moments, PLEASE!!!!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is kind of tired of the 1982 hype. It is time for the team to make new memories. http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/pimp.gif

 

[RU Rah Rah]

Fielder 1B
Braun 3B WHY move him?!

 

Clearly, the team isn't getting enough production from these two guys, so a change is in order.

 

 

[BrewCrewForever]

Lineups

 

Milwaukee

 

Weeks 2B

Hardy SS

Fielder 1B

Braun 3B WHY move him?!

Jenkins LF

Hart RF

Hall CF

Estrada C

Cappy P

 

I am really worried that this is going to hurt us in the long term. Braun has shown at times that he tends to chase bad pitches from time to time and without Prince behind him he could be seeing that. Why Ned? Why?

 

Fire him now!

Interesting. I like Hart in a run producing spot, but I also liked him batting 2 behind Rickie with JJ 8. Hall down to 7 is great. Im willing to give this Fielder then Braun thing about 3 or 4 games. If its not working, go back to what worked.

[brettac1]

Fire him now!

 

Because he trotted out a lineup you didn't like in one game? Lineup construction isn't a major deal anyway, unless it were something really egregious like leading off with Estrada and hitting Mench second.

 

I'd guess he moved Fielder to the three spot to get him more good pitches to hit. If Braun gets pitched around, fine, because Jenkins has been pretty much on fire since the break: .309/.380/.543 with 3 HR. This lineup makes sense, and it breaks up the lefties while allowing Jenkins to move up to the fifth spot in the order.

 

Think about it before you fly off the handle.

[Bring Back the Stein]

It's only a matter of time before Counsell is in the 4 spot and Estrada leads off. AAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

 

(And yes, I'm flying off the handle, without apologies. Sorry. Whoops. That's an apology.)

[yogallardo43]

Fire him now!

 

Because he trotted out a lineup you didn't like in one game? Lineup construction isn't a major deal anyway, unless it were something really egregious like leading off with Estrada and hitting Mench second.

 

I'd guess he moved Fielder to the three spot to get him more good pitches to hit. If Braun gets pitched around, fine, because Jenkins has been pretty much on fire since the break: .309/.380/.543 with 3 HR. This lineup makes sense, and it breaks up the lefties while allowing Jenkins to move up to the fifth spot in the order.

 

Think about it before you fly off the handle.

 

If you think I am basing that off of today's lineup you are wrong. I am sick and tired of Ned trying to over manage this team. If nothing is wrong you do not have to fix it. You could argue that the Brewers are not scoring as many runs as they should but it is not due to lack of production out of Fielder or Braun. Personally get Billy to the 2-hole and move Hart to 5th. Also why touch Hardy when he is back to driving the ball since the move to the 8-hole.

[yogallardo43]

Estrada hitting 8th? Yuck. He'll never see a strike, and he'll make all of the non-strikes he sees strikes, lol.

 

I never thought of that but that is a good point. Also we love to use the sac bunt (everybody does I guess) and moving Estrada into scoring postion will not exactly give us a run on a single with Estrada on 2nd base.

[igor67]

As a practical matter the 3 most important things in line-up construction are not exposing yourself to obvious tactical disadvantage (clumpy a bunch platoon type lefties together), getting your best hitters more ABs, and giving the players spots that they are comfortable with psychologically. I think one can argue that the line-up listed is a reasonable compromise of those factors. I'm not worried about Estrada making outs because he'll do it anyway regardless and I am skeptical that we're giving up runs because Estrada might take fewer intentional unintentional walks out of the 8 spot.

[bucksman4]

I think a lot of people on here like to blow the smallest things out of proportion. Changing a lineup's order is one of the things that sparks fans angst or gives them a reason to complain. It doesn't matter if Hart hits 2nd or 6th. Does it really matter that Hall's hitting 7th instead of 5th? Come on! Get real, folks. This won't make or break what happens in this game anyways. Take a chill pill, stop overanalyzing, and just sit back and see what happens tonight.

[Rob]

I thought that studies done on lineups have shown that the lineup order has very llittle to do with the number of runs scored? Anybody else heard that?

[Fear The Chorizo]

Lineups

 

Milwaukee

 

Weeks 2B

Hardy SS

Fielder 1B

Braun 3B WHY move him?!

Jenkins LF

Hart RF

Hall CF

Estrada C

Cappy P

 

I am really worried that this is going to hurt us in the long term. Braun has shown at times that he tends to chase bad pitches from time to time and without Prince behind him he could be seeing that. Why Ned? Why?

 

Fire him now!

I guess I'm in the minority, but I like this lineup...a lot. J.J. has really started to swing the bat well again, putting him right in front of Fielder should allow him to continue seeing pitches to hit. Remember who he was hitting in front of to start the season off, when he was hitting HRs all over the place? Fielder finally has some protection hitting behind him, and alternating righty, lefty, righty, lefty, righty through the middle of the order makes managers burn through their bullpen faster in late game situations, especially managers that like to play the matchups (i.e., LaRussa) Moving Braun behind Fielder really won't affect the pitches he sees much, he's already shown the ability to show good plate discipline - at times he's pressed in situations with runners on/less than 2 out, but nobody can come through 100% of the time in those spots. Whether it's Braun/Fielder or Fielder/Braun in the lineup, the key to how these two get pitched aren't each other, it's the performance of the rest of the lineup - if J.J. stays relatively hot in front of those two, and Jenkins/Hart continue to hit well behind them, teams will be playing with fire by pitching around them every time.

 

Weeks has been getting on base well enough to continue leading off...if only he can start mashing the ball like he's capable of, the lineup will look even better. Now would be as good a time as any for Hall and Weeks to wake up and start hitting like they're capable of hitting. IMO, those two are the key as to how good this team can play down the stretch.

[Ennder]

Estrada hitting 8th? Yuck. He'll never see a strike, and he'll make all of the non-strikes he sees strikes, lol.

 

He'll never see a strike with runners on. Most pitchers like to go after the 8 hitter with nobody on because even if he gets a hit they get the free out after him and if there are 2 outs they would rather get to start the next inning with the pitcher.

[Rorschach88]

Lineups

 

Milwaukee

 

Weeks 2B

Hardy SS

Fielder 1B

Braun 3B WHY move him?!

Jenkins LF

Hart RF

Hall CF

Estrada C

Cappy P

 

I am really worried that this is going to hurt us in the long term. Braun has shown at times that he tends to chase bad pitches from time to time and without Prince behind him he could be seeing that. Why Ned? Why?

 

Fire him now!

 

with this lineup the only way hart will score is if he steals home. why put your main base stealer infront of the two guys who struggle the most regualarly?

[Ennder]

Hart is hitting .233/.280/.477/.757 with 3 SB over his last 40 games. Looks like Yost just crammed all the cold guys in the bottom of the order.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Didn't Yost say not too long ago that the top five in the lineup were going to stay there? That hasn't happened. He should just pick the lineup out of a hat, since it doesn't matter. Do like Garner did. Lead off Rob Deer.

[lukevan]

Personally get Billy to the 2-hole

 

I'd have a gripe with Ned if he put Hall in the 2 hole. That's the spot where you least want someone who strikes out consistently.

 

It is weird though that Yost is moving everything around, but really it's not a big deal. He could've kept Braun 3, Fielder 4 and batted Hart 5 with Jenkins 6th and that would've kept in tact the R-L-R-L order, but it's nothing to get upset over.

[lukevan]

why put your main base stealer infront of the two guys who struggle the most regualarly?

 

Wouldn't Hart stealing a bag make it easier for players who are not big sluggers to drive in a run? One could make the case that Hart doesn't get a chance to steal any bases in front of Braun and Fielder because most managers won't steal when their best hitters are at the plate.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Estrada would swing at intentional balls, and hitting 8th gives him that chance. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

 

The lineup isn't terrible, though I'm opposed to this "Hit Hardy eighth for three days and then throw him back in the second spot" idea. If it's going to take Ned longer than that to react to a bad streak, he should be slower to react to a good streak. I think it's part of why he has to change things up so much. He moves a guy before that guy is ready to be moved.