9 year old playing in 5-8 year old soccer league Dilema

[Big Reed]

we have a soccer league wirth teams of 25+ players divided into two squads based on ages 5-8 and 9-12.. the little kids play two quarters and the older kids play two quarters. you add up the scores and declare a winner. The reason they do it this way is because of lack of refs, lack of parents to coach and lack of soccer fields. yes it would be better to seperate the children into two seperate leagues rather than have one gigantic team. however, because of constraints, it can't be done.

 

the team in first place has a player playing with the 5-8 year olds that many children claim is 9 years old. they claim they attend classes with him and have gone to his birthday party and they know for a fact he's 9. My son went to basketball camp with him at a nearby college and he played with the 9-12 year olds at that camp. This child is far superior to any of the 5-8 year olds he plays with. He also averages 3-4 goals a game against these poor 5 and 6 year old goalies. His team only averages 4-6 points a game including the older players' scores. the other children in the league are all now calling the blue team a bunch of cheaters because they play this kid with their 5-8 year olds and not with the 9-12 year olds. This kid is like the Red Baron blowing by all these 5,6 & 7 year olds. Once he gets in the open, you know he's going to score.

 

 

here's the dilema. the team's two coaches are the commisioner of the league who also is a ref, while the assistant coach is the town's only cubmaster who also is a ref. somebody is lying. is it the player? the coach? or the other children who attended his birthday party? and what do you do about it?

 

Do you blow the whistle?

 

Do you look the other way?

 

Do you find ways for your team to cheat?

 

I'm a blunt whistle blowing type of guy. Turbo Rickey once kicked me out of his baseball fantasy league for publically exposing an owner was cheating hacking through a software back door of sandlot baseball. I also notified sandlot who fixed the software back door problem. Turbo kicked the other guy out for cheating and kicked me out for being a snitch and overall annoyingly truthful do gooder and social outcast. But this isn't fantasy baseball, it's reality.

 

any suggestions, before I blow my whistle once more? I'm not a coach, just a concerned parent who's afraid these two coaches may take it out on our team when they ref our games. I also fear the league may fold if the commish is publically exposed for cheating to win games.

 

My initial idea was to send both coaches an unsigned typed (spellchecked) letter explaining the accusations/speculations and requesting they do the right thing.

[Houlie24x]

I can't imagine being 9 years old playing against 5 year olds. At that age its just a huge advantage. I also find it hard to believe that all these kids would lie to you and say hes 9 if hes not. If you are pretty sure that this is true I wouldn't hesitate to call the kid out on it. Thats just terrible that his parents would allow him to do this and coach for that matter.

[trwi7]

I say you break into the kids house and find his birth certificate.

 

Seriously though. Call them out on it. If they're going to take it out on another team for trying to make it an even playing field would you even want your kid playing in that type of league?

[igor67]

Reed this is exactly the type of situation that calls for your unrelenting willingness to challenge authority. I'd see if you could figure out a creative way to get age-proof from the school this kid is supposed to attend. A class picture or something like that the school obviously can't tell you his age directly. I think you need to ask yourself if you really want your kids to play in a league where there is that kind of moral bankruptcy. Then there is the injury issue. If this kid gets in a collision with some 5 year old? And with my son having played on a 10 under football team the last two years I'd be scared witless of the thought of him playing those kids at 5 and getting run over without any pads. This same league my son has been in has some teams that have been known to hold illegal practices, which I find really obnoxious. It isn't an issue to blow up the league for since it's an individual team and it's a poorly kept secret, so I classify it more in the learning to live in the real world type class. I would feel differently if they were running ringers out there though.

[whizkid]

Normally there is a cutoff date for age determination and it could be different than the school systems' or the basketball camp's date. You could have 5 year olds who are exactly 5 years on that date and 8 year and 364 day olds who then turn 9. I'd think you need to be on solid ground with the age. You could inquire about it non beligerently. At that age though, winning isn't that important and if it's true I'd probably use it as a life lesson about cheating and a lack of satisfaction in accomplishments when you do cheat.

[Diskono]

A lot of the time in youth leagues, its the age of a player at the start of the competition that matters. So if he was still 8 at the beginning of the season, he can play through the rest of the season. Though if that's the case, he should be qualified to play in either, and I can't imagine why they wouldn't want this kid to play against tougher competition.

[GAME05]

even besides the age issue, you could argue that he should be playing with the older kids because he's so much better than the younger ones.

[Samurai Bucky]

C'mon -- this is all supposed to be about having fun, right?

I don't know if I would hire a private investigator to dig up the dirt on this child, however I think I would speak to the person / people who oversee the league. I'll warn you, though, somebody may pull out the "It's supposed to be fun" card on you. I haven't had an age-related issue like you are mentioning, but I have had coaches pull that card on me. Of course, they did it when they were winning (I coach both soccer and baseball/softball).

 

Here are the reasons I would raise:

 

1. It is not benefitting the kid who is "playing down." This year, my wife and I moved my second-grade daughter up to play fastpitch softball with the third and fourth graders. The two reasons we did that were because we felt she could compete, and also because it is easier for a softball coach to coach two of his daughters on one team. My point is that the experience my daughter gained, in success and in failure, will benefit her greatly. It helped that she was one of the better players on the team, too http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif.

 

2. It is not benefitting the kids he is playing with. When kids play soccer at this age, many times they play scrum soccer. One thing I have tried to teach my team as they have progressed (we are entering U9 now) is how to share the ball. This is difficult to teach to five year olds just because they are, well, five-year-olds. Having the big kid run around everybody else leaving his teammates behind (not giving them a chance) probably becomes more of a deterrant than anything else.

 

If there is a clear violation of the age limit, then it would just be best for all parties to have the boy placed in the right age group.

 

I hope it all works out for you...

[Crewin06]

Well it isn't right to have 8 year olds on the same field with 5 year olds. So I wouldn't understand why it would be OK to have 9 year olds.

 

But here is my argument. My Birthday was in June. I was small for my age so my parents put me in the class behind instead of in front. Which was great I was the 3rd oldest kid in my class, still one of the shortest through grade school.

 

During sporting events the age cutoff limit was always July 15th. I didn't make it. So every other year I got to be the smallest player in the league for both Soccer and Baseball. Instead of playing with my friends I was playing with people a grade or two above me. In 6th grade I didnt want to play with the 7th and 8th graders. So I stopped. Haven't played organized baseball since.

 

Today I am normal height 5'11". And still stay active and play alot of different sports but Baseball is not one of them.

 

If the Kid is in the other boys class I would guess that he is just barely 9 unless he was held back which is easy enough to prove.

 

Either way I would say the major flaw with the system is the 5-8 range and not the kid that was born 15 days before the deadline to play with his friends.

[HebrewHammer]

It sounds like this kid is just a lot better than everyone else. He's obviously dominating other 8 year olds too.

 

It happens in youth sports. Kids grow and very different rates.

 

I played in a youth football league and you had to present proof of age to enter. We would have kids that were just bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than other kids and they would dominate. The running back on our team was a man child but he was in the legal age. We would have games where we would run him through the 4-hole and he would basically go untouched for like 4 or 5 TD's in a row. In short, this kid dominated his peers.

 

That's sports. You get kids that are much better than everyone else.

 

When I played little league we had a team where there were about 4 of us that were so much better than just about everyone else in the league. Obviously we simply dominated. We had a pitcher who was really big for his age and no one could hit him. Strike out after strike out. But he was legal and simply better than the other kids. That's the point of competition, to find out who is better than the others. One thing we don't teach kids today is most of them are going to lose. Half of people are below average.

 

But if he was my kid I'd want him being challenged by bigger kids to build his game up. Simply destroying kids his age doesn't benefit him. He has the ability to go against bigger kids and it's a choice that his parents should make. For instance, my Freshman year of HS I played on the varsity baseball team because I was good enough. Playing against the weak freshman competition wouldn't have benefited me at all. Playing against varsity players was really hard because the pitchers were 4 years older than me. But it paid off because I had so much experience by the time I was older and was able to beat most of them.

[Crewin06]

But if he was my kid I'd want him being challenged by bigger kids to build his game up. Simply destroying kids his age doesn't benefit him. He has the ability to go against bigger kids and it's a choice that his parents should make. For instance, my Freshman year of HS I played on the varsity baseball team because I was good enough. Playing against the weak freshman competition wouldn't have benefited me at all. Playing against varsity players was really hard because the pitchers were 4 years older than me. But it paid off because I had so much experience by the time I was older and was able to beat most of them.

I hate to piecemeal a very good post. But what benefit did you get by building up your game. Did you end up getting a full ride to college? are you toiling around in the minors? And High School is very different than 3rd -4th grade. If I was a parent of a 3rd or 4th grader I would say who cares about building up his game. Let the kid be with the friends in his grade unless he showed interest in playing in the level above. All I am saying is that an organizer and parents of a sporting league should take into account a kids grade before determining who has to go in what league. The reason I always ended up in the higher league is my parents didn't want to deal with overzealous parents complaining about cheating.

 

Needless to say that nobody from my hometown age group went on to play Baseball or soccer past DIII College

[HebrewHammer]

Never played after HS. I had other interests such as music and didn't want to go to college right away. Other interests sort of took over. Also, I played city league and it wasn't like the competition was very good. If I would have went to most suburban schools I wouldn't have been varsity my freshmen year. It was really a lot of the fact that city league schools don't have many good baseball players. Basketball.....a different story!

 

We never got scouted at all. And it wasn't like I was so good that scouts would hear about me through the grapevine.

 

Oh, as for the benefit, it was actually challenging. Playing against the freshmen would have been pretty lame. The way it was set up the kids that were good at all got moved up to JV and Varsity. The freshmen team was really, really bad. The JV team was pretty bad too. They tried and put anyone that was good on Varsity.

 

I agree at a young age playing with your friends is the most important thing. I'm not sure why score is even being kept in such a young league. 5,6 7 and 8 year olds don't need to be keeping score much. The kids care about it a whole lot less than the nutty parents.

[homer]

I'm not a coach, just a concerned parent who's afraid these two coaches may take it out on our team when they ref our games.

To be blunt: who cares? They are little kids, not professionals. It's not like you have money riding on it. 20 years from now they'll laugh about getting hosed by a ref in kiddie soccer (if they even remember)

I agree at a young age playing with your friends is the most important thing. I'm not sure why score is even being kept in such a young league. 5,6 7 and 8 year olds don't need to be keeping score much. The kids care about it a whole lot less than the nutty parents.

Agreed. Not to go off topic too far, but why does every child sport need to be organized with teams, and uniforms, and referees, and standings? Can't kids just go play ball on their own if they want to? I didn't play soccer or little league until I was 10. Now you have three year olds chasing balls around. It seems kind of pointless to me.

[pitchleague]

if this soccer league also gives a Player of the Year trophy or something like that (I doubt it, since it's 5-8 year olds, but I've been surprised before), make a little grassroots movement around the league's other coaches to vote for somebody else. That way, when the 9-year old scores 8 goals in the championship game and totally expects to win this trophy, he will be devastated when someone else wins and will go home and cry like a baby. Heck, maybe he'd lose it right there on the field!

 

Man, am I mean!

[mothershipconnection]

I was born on July 31, which was always the last day to be considered of a certain age for baseball. As a result, I was always the youngest player in the league and could have played with kids a year younger if I had been born 3 hours later.

[HebrewHammer]

Agreed. Not to go off topic too far, but why does every child sport need to be organized with teams, and uniforms, and referees, and standings? Can't kids just go play ball on their own if they want to? I didn't play soccer or little league until I was 10. Now you have three year olds chasing balls around. It seems kind of pointless to me.

I have to agree. I mean, I played organized football in a 7-10 league and a 11-14 league. You didn't play much when you were at the bottom levels of the age, but you learned. But that league was unique and fun. We kept score, had a championship for the older league, etc and it was fun. But I also played tons of football with my friends in the street and fields. The 7-10 league was really noncompetitive though and was meant to teach kids fundamentals and things so they knew how to play and knew if they wanted to play when they were older. Score was kept but it wasn't like records were used much. Every kid got the same trophy at the end for playing. The older league was a little more competitive as it should be.

Same with a T-Ball league I played in when I was really little. Score wasn't kept, every kid batted and everyone got a trophy at the end of the league.

 

Now days you really do see competitive leagues for little kids. Parents have gotten a little out of control with these things. It seems like a lot of them are living through their kids. And what's worse is kids aren't doing other things like learning to play instruments (every kid should know how to play something), arts programs are getting cut because of parents obsessions with youth sports and the stakes have gotten higher in terms of scholarship money and such.

When we kids playing baseball or football we would just play. I remember countless games where no one really knew the score and when it was time to determine a "winner" we would almost always "next point wins". It was more about playing than winning. Parents seem to be the ones obsessed with winning. We never cared much. We just liked running around, hitting and acting like kids. Man, I miss those summers. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I remember my Little League coach happily telling me my stats. I never asked and I don't even remember what he said. I remember I didn't care much. He was a lot more excited than I was. I just liked playing the game with my team and winning games at that level. I liked cheering for my teammates and doing my best on both sides. My coach was the one who was busy calculating everyones stats and letting them know what they were, etc. Most kids didn't care at all.

[Roscoe Chill]

I was born on July 31, which was always the last day to be considered of a certain age for baseball. As a result, I was always the youngest player in the league and could have played with kids a year younger if I had been born 3 hours later.

 

My birthday is August 3, so I know what you're saying, only from the other side. I was the oldest kid in little league when I was 12. But from my perspective back then, I would have much rather been born on July 31 and actually got to start playing with kids in my own grade when they did...I had to wait a year.

[Big Reed]

one rule the league has is that they allow the 8 year olds to play with the older kids if they feel the child is able to compete at their level.

 

the age cut-off date was 1 August. His Birthday was in June. So he was clearly 9 before the cut-off date. I guess this 9 year old and his parents get their jollies beating up on 5 and 6 year olds.

 

8-10 year olds are a lot cheaper than hiring a private investigator. and they love finding dirt on somebody - especially if it's a classmate. at that age, you can find a snitch for free. Maybe I'll have one of those cute 5 year old girls with those cute beaming eyes walk up to him and say I'm 5 , how old are you? and then I'll pop out of the bushes and say Ahah ! I knew it!

 

After sleeping on it, it's kind of obvious and well known to many of the other coaches this kid's age. Rather than being the bad guy (whistle blower), I was thinking of laying low on this issue to see if any of the other coaches including our own brings this matter to the attention of the blue coach. We don't play this team again for another 5 games. I have a feeling another child (probably my own)will spill the beans and another parent may force the issue.

 

In this small town, if the coach reads my anonymous 2 page letter, he'll know it came from me because nobody in our town uses words over 6 letters long. and nobody uses a computer to compose their complaints. I have a bad feeling if I question the kid's age, they'll start questioning and harassing my son about his age. He's 5'-6 and 11 years old and looks like he's 13-14. I carry his ID card whenever we play.

 

my son plays in this league as kind of a warm up for his official soccer league in the Fall. There are no trophies awarded. My son's team went undefeated last year and got a paper MS publisher certificate for his efforts.

 

it still burns my chops that the coach allows him to play with the younger kids. maybe the coach just needs some math education. maybe he just can't subtract. maybe I could cal l him up and offer him some tutoring, and have my wife give him an eye exam. 8s look a lot like 9s.

 

 

an interesting variety of responses.

[Crewin06]

No offense Big Reed.

 

But get over it.

 

Your son does not play against him directly, there are no awards at the end of the season, your son is presumably in a much better league later on.

 

I just don't get why you are hell bent on making an ass out of yourself and being that parent that takes little league soccer way to seriously. It just doesn't seem like it would be worth the time, effort or the frustration that it is clearly causing you.

 

Take a deep breath and tell your son to have a good time while he is out there.

[bacon06]

I ref a lot of soccer games and a 9 year old playing in a competitive game with 5 year olds is rather dangerous. Considering how size the alleged 9 year old probably has over the younger kids, he could really hurt someone. There's a lot of free balls, especially in little kid soccer where no one can posses it, so there's a lot of times where two opposing players are going for the ball and they don't always know how to control their bodies yet and collide. The potential risk for injury alone along with the obvious bending of the rules is a very poor lack of judgment by the coaches. Not only is it in the best interests of the other players to protect them, but also to teach all the kids a good lesson about life.

[Crewin06]

I ref a lot of soccer games and a 9 year old playing in a competitive game with 5 year olds is rather dangerous. Considering how size the alleged 9 year old probably has over the younger kids, he could really hurt someone. There's a lot of free balls, especially in little kid soccer where no one can posses it, so there's a lot of times where two opposing players are going for the ball and they don't always know how to control their bodies yet and collide. The potential risk for injury alone along with the obvious bending of the rules is a very poor lack of judgment by the coaches. Not only is it in the best interests of the other players to protect them, but also to teach all the kids a good lesson about life.

 

But a 5 year old playing with a kid 1 month younger and who knows the difference physically is not as dangerous?

 

Again the grouping of ages in the league is wrong.

 

You say your kid is 11 and as physically imposing as a 13 year old. How is that any different than him playing with a small 9 year old.

 

I think the original poster has more of a problem with his son's team not winning than the safety of the children.

[Invader3K]

My question is if there is any actual proof that the kid is older. All I'm hearing about is some heresay and things some kids have said, who let's face it, can be easily wrong or mislead. Some kids are just bigger and look older than they are. Until you have some real proof, I wouldn't go making claims you can't back up.

[dadofandrew]

I'd be far more concerned about my 5 year-old, small for his size, on the field with an 8 year-old who would just kick the ball as hard as he could for no reason than a talented 9 year-old. The league itself sounds like an ER visit waiting to happen. As for the supposed 9 year-old, unless you're betting on the games, it's needless drama.