Umpiring in Astros series (and Prince Fielder confrontation)

[adambr2]

This entire umpiring crew has been complete trash the entire series. It started with Hirshbeck in the first game, some blatantly blown calls at first base. Then the balls and strikes have been very, very questionable, at best.

Prince was rightfully tossed, but for the homeplate umpire to provoke him into a reaction like that is completely trashy.

The poor umpiring didn't really have an effect on any games in this series as far as final outcome. But that doesn't excuse them. I thought this was probably the worst umpiring crew we've seen this season.

Here's my other question on this. Did it look like Prince made contact with the umpire? It was really hard to tell, but it didn't really look like he bumped him. I don't know if he'll get suspended, maybe somewhere between 1 and 3 games, based on what they see.


(added tag --1992)

[clancyphile]

I'd disagree. It probably meant our guys had to throw a lot more pitches then they otherwise would have had to. In essence, it depleted our bullpen for the third game - and that's an L, and that means the Scrubs get the division lead.

 

Still, being able to overcome such bad calls two out of three times is a good sign. I think the team's turned a corner.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It goes both ways. I know that one of the Astros batters (can't remember who) in the first game was called out on a 3rd strike that was easily 4-5 inches outside, and a few inches low to boot.

 

I think that saying that "safe" call on the grounder stretched out our bullpen to an unmanagable point is a bit of a stretch. It extended that inning, yes, but Bush was struggling to begin with.

[adambr2]

Bad calls are still bad calls, even if they go both ways. But I still wouldn't really agree with that. In the opener, the Astro runner was almost a full step late to 1st base early on, and somehow, Hirshbeck calls him safe. Then just moments later, Hart beats a throw to 1st, his foot hit the bag with the ball still about a foot and a half away from the glove, and he's called out.

 

Hirshbeck was by far the biggest culprit of the umpiring crew, but they all did a pretty poor job this series as it is IMO.

[brettac1]

This is why I am in full support of QuesTec and any sort of computerizing of umpiring. There is enough human error being carried out by the players, as far as I'm concerned.

[crewcrazy]

I don't think Prince will get suspended, but I could be wrong...the fact that Prince kept going after the ump after being basically taken away by the coaches probably enhances his chance of getting suspended, and other players have gotten suspended for tamer confrontations. With that said, even if he does get suspended, wouldn't you think he'd just "appeal" the 3 day suspension or whatever is coming and then drop the appeal once the roster expands in September?

[logan82]

The umpire today was calling a very inconsistent outside pitch to lefties all day. He was doing it for both teams though. The third strike to Fielder may have been a ball, but it was to close to take with 2 stikes and 2 outs.

[dadofandrew]

Very inconsistent balls/strikes all series, and Hirshbeck was 1 of 4 at 1B the other night. Terrible job by all the entire series.

[areacodes]

Uecker made it sound like the umpire was out of line in the fact that he went after Prince and said something to Prince that caused the reaction. Prince deserved to be ejected, but any thing about what Wally Bell said? Uecker went on to say how Bell looked like he was saying "thats not how I meant it" or something along those lines. How did it look on TV? I was driving back from a long weekend up in Door County and didn't get a chance to see the game.

[parkside21]

CrewCrazy,

 

Yes, he could appeal the suspension (if one comes), but I don't see how that really helps. I'd rather he take it now, rather than wait until September when the rosters expand. It's not like anyone is going to come up and do a better job than Dillon is right now anyways, I say just take it now (if there is one coming) and get it over with and move on into September, we'll need Prince then more than ever.

[parkside21]

Also...I agree, Uecker sensationalized it a little bit, I was listening to the game on the radio, but was recording the game (was at a park), and I just went back and watched the play. Yes, the umpire "followed" him, but that lasted about 3 feet, and all the umpire said was, at least from is lips, it looked like he said "What'd you say?", Prince then repeated something and he got tossed. Prince then went off and got in the umpire's face, the umpire got back in his for about 10-15 seconds, then Yost seperated them and it looked like the umpire walked away, with Prince still screaming and looking to follow the ump at that point. Maybe it was a bad call, maybe the ump followed Prince initially for a few feet, but he didn't bark at him while he was following him. I have to say the fault is on Prince in this one, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple game suspension, since it did look like he made slight contact.

[dadofandrew]

If suspended, he would obviously appeal until 9/1, as that would leave the Crew with 3 bench players otherwise...that's kind of obvious.

[parkside21]

Why? If it's a 2-3 game suspension, do you think it really makes a difference? Don't you think they'd be better off just having Prince serve the suspension now? We are in a very tight pennant race, it's not like players that come up in September should get much playing time at all, even if it is just a pinch hit. If they were to be any help to this team, they would have already been called up by this point. As long as Dillon can play a serviceable first base for two or three games, I'd rather they just get the suspension over with now. In a perfect world, I guess if Prince is suspended for more than a game, I'd like to see them send down Spurling (if possible) or just DFA him and call up a bat.

[Paul77]

Yes, the umpire "followed" him, but that lasted about 3 feet, and all the umpire said was, at least from is lips, it looked like he said "What'd you say?"

 

Yep. That's what I "read" from his lips.

 

Prince then repeated something and he got tossed.

 

If it's what he said originally I believe it was "Thats two times you [made sweet love] to me, thats two times"

[EsoxLazer]

Prince was rightfully tossed and shouldn't have been taking a pitch that close anyway but I still really have a problem with the way many umpires seem to go after players these days. If a guy goes over the line he should be tossed but I cannot stand it when umpires start taking steps toward the player or follow them towards the dugout. I think it was Bill Shroeder who said "all of these people don't pack the stands to see the umpires" or something close to that. I'm in no way, shape, or form condoning what some players say or how they react in many cases, but it is definitely trending towards the umps escalating things by following or confronting players. If someone says something that offensive or bad, throw him out right away. If it wasn't bad enough to warrant an ejection, don't follow the guy back to the dugout or say anything back because thats just going to escalate the theatrics and make it a far worse situation than it needs to be. A well umpired game should be one where you never even know they are on the field...and its becoming more of a rarity from what Ive seen.

[1992casey]

areacodes, Schroeder essentially said the same thing as Uecker. He went onto say that umps need to realize that they're not the ones fans pay to see.

 

As far as when Prince would serve a possible suspension, September would definitely be preferable. Because teams can't replace suspended players on the roster, it's better that a suspension be served when the roster can be larger.

[Paul77]

I agree there are some umps that really get out of line themselves, I just didn't see that as the case today. Prince said the magic words, more than once, and got tossed. IMO, the ump did nothing wrong this time. I even mentioned to my son at the time that the ump seemed to be giving Prince a chance to say his peace and go back to the bench but Prince kept barking. I even thought that by asking Prince "What did you say" the ump was giving Prince one more opportunity to walk away, but Prince didn't take it. Instead he said some more magic words.

 

My favorite part was the look of complete shock on his face when he got tossed. Everyone saw it coming, but apparently not Prince.

 

areacodes, Schroeder essentially said the same thing as Uecker. He went onto say that umps need to realize that they're not the ones fans pay to see.

 

While thats true, he didn't seem to have that opinion until after they returned from commercial break. Not that I disagree, just something I noticed. Before the break it was all, "you can't argue balls and strikes with the ump" and "Prince needs to be careful before he gets more than ejected". After the break he railed on about how the umps (in general) need to stop trying to be the show, as if somehow Prince didn't earn his ejection.

[dlk9s]

I even thought that by asking Prince "What did you say" the ump was giving Prince one more opportunity to walk away,

 

To me, the ump was actually doing the opposite by saying this. He was goading Prince into extending the argument so that he could eject him. If the ump wanted to give Prince a chance to walk away, he would not have said, "What did you say?" By asking Prince a question, he is looking for an answer, not silence.

[ninja33]

Why? If it's a 2-3 game suspension, do you think it really makes a difference? Don't you think they'd be better off just having Prince serve the suspension now? We are in a very tight pennant race, it's not like players that come up in September should get much playing time at all, even if it is just a pinch hit. If they were to be any help to this team, they would have already been called up by this point. As long as Dillon can play a serviceable first base for two or three games, I'd rather they just get the suspension over with now. In a perfect world, I guess if Prince is suspended for more than a game, I'd like to see them send down Spurling (if possible) or just DFA him and call up a bat.

what happens when one of those 2-3 games goes to 12 innings and youre out of bats? you cant roll with 3 bench players, september would definitely be better.

 

[Tbadder]

Umpiring in MLB is the 3rd worst of the 4 major leagues (yes, still counting hockey). Baiting is a huge problem with some crews, they got that macho attitude. It's true that Prince should've been given the ejection, but somekind of electronic monitoring is essential. Plus, umpires need to be mic-ed. Standards for baiting should be established and separate incidences should be reviewed by an impartial board. The fact is that umps have carte blanche and many abuse their power. I also believe that baseball needs a "challenge" rule that can be used once a game like football.

[Fatter than Joey]

I thought that the umpiring was bad -- but not necessarily favoring one team -- Prince probably should have been tossed -- of course if he does get suspended -- appealing it may offer the slim chance the "sentence" gets reduced

[LUKE232323]

There is no way that Prince should be suspended. It was a ridiculously quick hook by the umpire and Prince did not make contact. Utter joke if there is a suspension.

[Fatter than Joey]

It was a ridiculously quick hook by the umpire and Prince did not make contact

 

Players are supposed to be ejected automatically for arguing balls and strikes -- technically there is supposed to be zero tolerance -- my guess is that Prince was chirping all game.

[LUKE232323]

I'm not saying he didn't deserve ejection, but what he did does not warrant a suspension. If he gets a 3 gamer, no one can tell me what he did yesterday is only 2 games worse than Lee throwing haymakers.

[Paul77]

It was a ridiculously quick hook by the umpire

 

Quick hook? Prince was standing there arguing balls and strikes. Thats an automatic ejection - which he didn't do. The ump gave him a chance to say his peace (which including a few f-bombs) and walk away. Prince just didn't stop.

 

but what he did does not warrant a suspension.

 

I tend to agree (and I certainly hope your right). But there is the little matter of Prince circumventing Yost & Hall to get in the face of the ump and pumping his finger towards his face while screaming "F you". I think that might be pushing the limits of how far you can go before being suspended.