Brewers Looking for a New Radio Deal after 2008

[thunderbat30]

One change I would like to see is more FM stations picking up the games. When I am up at my parents it is so difficult to get a signal at night. Even where I live now, I can't get the Brewers on any station other than TMJ.

 

Also, as other posters mentioned, signals in the central part of the state are poor. You'd like to think anywhere in WI, at any time of the day, you could hear the game.

[RockCoCougars]

I agree that the Packers need to take a backseat to the Brewers if they are to reup with WTMJ. The fact of the matter is that WTMJ is able to sell advertising to 162 Brewers games a year vs. 20 Packers games. My guess is that the Brewers bring in more revenue for them. It always "peeves" me off when I can't get a late season Brewer game on the radio because the Packers are playing a game. Now that the Brewers are playing for the playoffs, and the Pack are also-rans, fan interest should tilt quite a bit towards the Brewers. I really could care less who the flagship station is anyway, because the affiliates will stay the same.

[BillScottCanRake]

Now that the Brewers are playing for the playoffs, and the Pack are also-rans, fan interest should tilt quite a bit towards the Brewers. I really could care less who the flagship station is anyway, because the affiliates will stay the same.

 

WTMJ devotes pretty much their entire Sunday to the Packers with hours of pre-game and post-game coverage. This has been the same as long as I can remember, going back to the early '90s, including last year and the year before. I would guess that on a Packer game day there are 10-12 hours of coverage. They do that because there is a huge demand for it, and it's the same reason they only have a 1/2 hour pre-game and post game show when broadcasting Brewer games.

 

And, while it helps having number 4 playing quarterback, the Packers were still big when guys like Dickey and Whitehurst and Wright were running the show. I don't think much is going to change once he retires.

 

The other thing I think people are forgetting is that while there are 162 Brewer games and only 16 Packer games. I have no doubt that advertisers pay considerably more money to run their ad during a Packer game than a Brewer game because the smaller number of games means less opportunity to reach that audience. I would be stunned if demand for an advertising slot during a Brewer game were anywhere near the same cost as it is during a Packer game.

 

And I personally think it's a silly myth that football will always rule. History just doesn't support that. The Braves ruled in the 1950's and the Brewers ruled in the 1980's. These things tend to go in cycles.

 

I don't think anyone wants to risk not having rights to Packer radio broadcasts when they are king, which is most of the time. Just a short run like the Packers had between 1995 and 1997 is huge to a station like TMJ. As much as I like the Brewers, I can't imagine they could have a three year run that would generate the same income no matter how good the team was.

[hawing]

More FM stations would improve coverage. I realize I'll probably have to grudgingly accept always being second fiddle to the Packers (maybe even in October, one of these years); but if the Brewers must be bumped, put them on a station that actually has some reach. No offense to WSSP, but they're not a good answer in terms of signal strength.

 

Is it known how many current Brewer Radio Network affiliates are also Packer affiliates? I wonder how many parts of the state actually have a reasonable backup radio option when the Brewers and Packers schedules overlap. Milwaukee does (though a weak signal in WSSP), Madison does in ESPN 1070, I assume (hope?) that someone in Green Bay would.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Being a radio guy, a few thoughts:

 

1. I'm sure WTMJ's contracts for the Packers, Brewers, and Badgers detail priority. For those who don't know, that priority is likely Packers/Brewers/Badgers. None of the entities involved should want to change this arrangement, because like someone else said, the Brewers are much better off with 155 games on WTMJ than 162 on a smaller station.

 

2. That said, if the Brewers are truly concerned about their coverage in southern Wisconsin, maybe the best thing to do is take full control of the network operations. The Twins have done this starting in 2007. They are still distributed by the same statewide network that had them when WCCO generated the broadcasts, but the Twins have full control over production and advertising sales. The rights fee they're getting from KSTP, I don't think, is as high as what WCCO was giving them, but since the Twins get all the ad money, they're getting more out of the deal. And instead of WCCO or the Minnesota News Network controlling the network, the Twins do. They added stations to increase their statewide coverage, even creating overlap in some areas. The overlap probably ticks off some stations, but it gives them more coverage for people traveling around the state. I don't know what stations just outside of Milwaukee could add the games, but that might be an option. An FM station in Milwaukee carrying the games instead of WSSP when they get bumped from WTMJ would also help. And if Mark A. is really worried about media revenue, taking control of the network would likely generate a nice increase in revenue.

 

3. From a standpoint of WTMJ, they have to do what they can to keep the Brewers. That's a nice ratings bump and a huge cash generator for them. Even if the Brewers took control of in-game media sales, the potential loss of listeners throughout the day isn't worth the risk of losing the Brewers. I can't imagine WTMJ would allow that to happen unless the Brewers were simply being unreasonable. WCCO was stupid to let the Twins go, and their spring ratings took a hit as a result.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Is it known how many current Brewer Radio Network affiliates are also Packer affiliates? I wonder how many parts of the state actually have a reasonable backup radio option when the Brewers and Packers schedules overlap. Milwaukee does (though a weak signal in WSSP), Madison does in ESPN 1070, I assume (hope?) that someone in Green Bay would.

Without looking, probably a ton. We were both in Duluth for a while until we got rid of the Brewers. When we had both, the Packers had priority, even in the preseason. We bumped the Brewers to a station of lesser coverage area, but never got many complaints about it.

I don't know that I'd call 1070 a good alternative to 1310, especially at night. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure what they do in Green Bay, though I don't think they shared affiliates until this year, when the Packers moved to WTAQ. They're part of our group, so I'll ask the PD down there what the deal is/has been.

[mikemercury]

I live in Green Bay, and I've got WTMJ's signal on 620 in Escanaba MI(about 90 miles north of here.) 'TMJ sells all the sports programming rights in bundles. For example Midwest Radio now broadcasts the Packers, Brewers, Badgers and Bucks on 1360AM. . .boo. For awhile they were on Cumulus's 107.5FM which is WAY stronger, then the weak AM station that carries it now. I hope whoever gets the Brewers will sell it stand alone to the local affiliates so our FM sports station can air it. Getting off topic, but local sports talk had a debate about what would dominate the talk airwaves in Green Bay come September and October either the Packers or 'Crew, and it was 80/20 in favor of the Packers all over the state, and 50/50 in Milwaukee. That's sad.

[logan82]

As for the TV deal, when it is up with FSN, any chance the Brewers create there own kind of baseball network to air on Time Warner and Charter cable ala the YES Network in New York?

 

I have to say I hate that idea. If they took the Brewers off FSN I would only get the Brewers games when they were on ESPN. I honestly don't see the Brewers doing something like that. Milwaukee by itself is a pretty small market. There are a lot of peolpe who don't live anywhere near Milwaukee who are fans. Like I have said in the past, the Brewers are a Wisconsin team more than a Milwaukee team. They get a lot of attendance from outside the Milwaukee area.

[areacodes]

Any reason why Powell couldn't resign his position with WTMJ if they switched and be picked up by either the Brewers or the new station that would take over the broadcasts? I know it would depend on how well they would compensate him as well but I gotta believe that would be a viable option.

 

edit: Also, don't you think the Brewers, if they switched to a different station, would then make them increase signal strength to agree to a deal? Or, maybe to draw the Brewers away do so on their own?

[AJAY]

WTMJ would have no use for Jim Powell if the Brewers aired their games on a different station. I am sure they would gladly let him out of his contract without a problem. In fact, I am sure Powell's contract probably already has a clause that lets him out if the Brewers switched stations.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Any reason why Powell couldn't resign his position with WTMJ if they switched and be picked up by either the Brewers or the new station that would take over the broadcasts? I know it would depend on how well they would compensate him as well but I gotta believe that would be a viable option.

 

edit: Also, don't you think the Brewers, if they switched to a different station, would then make them increase signal strength to agree to a deal? Or, maybe to draw the Brewers away do so on their own?

1. Powell may very well have a non-compete that would bar him from just jumping to whatever station picks up the games. That said, I don't know when his contract is up. If I were in that spot, I wouldn't allow myself to sign past the team's deal with that particular station.

2. There is a lot that goes into the rules regarding a station's signal strength. In many cases, it's not simply a matter of sinking in some money to increase the power. Explaining all those rules could take, literally, forever, and it's different for a lot of stations. Some can up their power but won't because it's not financially viable, and others are in a position where it's not possible for them to do so.

[hawing]

I don't know that I'd call 1070 a good alternative to 1310, especially at night.

 

True enough. In Madison I can pull in 1070 without much trouble (though I do have to set the radio in a different spot). Since we didn't return to Dane County until after 10:00 Saturday night, I knew enough not to even try getting 1070 in the car.

 

At least Madison has enough radio stations for it to be possible for the Brewers to air on an alternate station. If there's a lot of overlap between the Brewers and Packers affiliates, how much of the state simply loses the Brewers when football and baseball coincide? I guess that's what bothers me.

[endaround]

Really the only other possible place for the Brewers on AM that gives decent signal strength is 920 WOKY which has ceased to be relevant sometime around 1965. But its still strong and it would be a station that Attanasio or a group allinged with him could likely get a hold of.

[danzig6767]

If they insist on that as a potential deal breaker, then they will almost surely be moving from WTMJ. WTMJ would never put anything ahead of the Packers (and potentially the Badgers as well), even in pre-season, for fear of the Packers opening up their radio services for bidding. That's just sound business in this state, regardless of how good the Brewers are going to be the next few years.

 

And I personally think it's a silly myth that football will always rule. History just doesn't support that. The Braves ruled in the 1950's and the Brewers ruled in the 1980's. These things tend to go in cycles.

 

For that to happen Ajay,i think the Brewers would have to be really good for quite awhile at the same time Green Bay was playing really bad.What the Packers get that the Brewers or Bucks don't it,lower level sports fans to follow them that don't follow other sports much.I know alot of people from family/friends/people i'm around that follow and watch the Packers,but in general don't pay that much attention to other sports.

The sports junkies out there like me and others will watch/listen to the Packers/Brewers/Badgers/Bucks/local college teams or at least a combination of some of those teams.The Packers thrive on alot of women and very casual sports fans that enjoy watching a Packer game once a week on a Sunday and then that's close to be the extent of their sports viewing.My mom/a few aunts/uncles are perfect examples of this.They love the Packers and rarely miss a game,but all of them combined couldn't name me 5-6 guys on the Brewers roster.We just had a family gathering and the Brewers were brought up,everyone was glad to hear they are doing well,but nobody there besides myself and my cousin follows the team close.Once the Packers were brought up,most people had an opinion on the team and why they should or shouldn't be good.I really believe a sizable reason for this is not just that football is a great TV sport,it's only on once a week and 16 games that are mostly played on a Sunday.Perfect for people that don't want to invest a large amount of time watching a sport.

 

[PeaveyFury]

The Brewers already have priorty over the Badgers on WTMJ. It's always been that way.

 

While currently true, with WIBA in Madison has stepped up their Badgers coverage big-time with the addition of Badger football, and more recently, basketball to their super-powerful FM station. Considering that they're the big, Madison station with the obvious local affiliation to the team with a huge FM stick, I can see them making a strong push for the Badgers in the future. WTMJ might have to make some concessions for the very, very few games that would actually conflict in their negotiations with Learfield Sports.

[Fatter than Joey]

The Packers have always had priority over the Brewers -- even in the early 80s when the Brewers where doing much better than the Packers -- I suspect they are looking to leverage their position with WTMJ, and are resigned to the fact the Packers are king in WI

[patrickgpe]

here the problem, the brewers want to have as many fans have access to their broadcasts as possible, to go on 1250 would be bad and 1510 would be a disaster and embarrassing. (not a knock on 1510's programming but rather their sun up to sun down programming and the fact that they have to switch to 1290 for night games). 620 might not have the best sports talk or postgame, but is the best option to carry the team.

[Thurston Fluff]

Silly question but does the flagship station have to come from Milwaukee? TMJ has the Packers. If a station like 107.5 in Green Bay put in a bid would the Brewers be willing to listen? It a very powerful signal ond on FM so it comes in clearly. Alternativily I have to think it would be possible TMJ could lose the Packers to such a station in the future as well. If that happened it probably would free it up to play Brewer games when the Packers preseason games ore on.

 

I hope this effort results in improved coverage when Brewers broadcasts are bumped for the Packers. Something is wrong when I must miss a Brewers game because we can't get a decent signal while driving from southeast to south central Wisconsin. That this happened during a pennant race adds to my irritation

 

Try being a Brewer fan in the Green Bay/Valley and get a Brewer game on during a Packer game. I had to listen to the game through on a 5 watt station. Managed to get about half the game in what could be considered dicernable human voices.

[LS Brewer]

In the Chicago and NW Indiana area, 620 is the only station from the State of Wisconsin that we can get on the radio. It would be a shame if the Brewers left that station.

[1992casey]

I've posted this to a separate locked thread due to its length:

 

Brewer and Packer Radio Affiliates

[Paul77]

Silly question but does the flagship station have to come from Milwaukee? TMJ has the Packers. If a station like 107.5 in Green Bay put in a bid would the Brewers be willing to listen? It a very powerful signal ond on FM so it comes in clearly.

 

WTMJ has the Packers because WTMJ in a major market (top 35) station that can be heard clearly in Green Bay.

 

WDUZ is a top 200 market station that cannot be heard clearly, outside of some car radios, in Milwaukee.

 

I fail to see how this benefits the Brewers at all.

[davego]

It would be odd, but any station can put in a bid. Doens't happen often that the flagship is outside the city of the team but in case of the Badgers it works out. As we move more into the XM and Internet broadcast era I suspect the over-the-air signal that the flagship has will be less important.

[whizkid]

My recollection is that at one time in the past the Brewers took over production of the radio broadcasts for a time and just bought the air time on the various stations. The Brewers sold the advertising and kept the revenue I believe. I don't recall if this could have been during the time the games were on WISN in the early 80s though I'm thinking it was in the early 90s and the games were still on WTMJ in Milwaukee. It didn't last more than a year or two I don't think but it could have been that the Selig Brewers just weren't sophisticated enough to pull it off. Perhaps the Brewers could pull off something like this now.

 

WTMJ is the only station with enough signal coverage to help fill gaps in affiliate coverage to northeast and central Wisconsin. All other AM stations in Wisconsin either have power problems or have a very directional signal especially at night, both regulated by the FCC so as to not interfere with other stations on the same frequencies. Without WTMJ there would have to be a really expanded patchwork of AM or preferably FM affiliates to have statisfactory coverage outstate.

[Baldkin]

Wasn't the TV deal also based on erroneously low ratings or something like that as well?

[areacodes]

Wasn't the TV deal also based on erroneously low ratings or something like that as well?

Apparently there was a problem with the Nielson ratings and they were unable to get a rating from nearly 40% of the Milwaukee market.

 

Lost in translation; TV ratings at Fox cable network are off