Dog attack at WTMJ/Dog Discussion

[RyDogg66]

That's all well and good, pit bulls are defended more by people than any other dog, and Im not sure why. I think they are worthless. That is just my opinion. I would let my kid play with a dog while I was sitting next to them in the same room. I would not let them play with a pit bull, even if I were sitting next to them in the same room.

 

maybe I over react, but I dont trust them. Again, given the choices of 1000s of dogs, why someone chooses pit, except for the machismo reason of having a dog that can eat your face in two seconds, is beyond me.

[SeriesFinale]

http://www.adaholic.com/fullaccess/315_I1.jpg

 

 

[HebrewHammer]

homer, I was referring to dogs in general. And I have no evidence to back up my statement. Just an assumption through observation and discussion with "dog people". I know when I was a kid I would tease dogs sometimes. And by tease it was things that seemed innocent. I've seen many kids do things like that, even in front of me. Kids just don't know. Even how they approach the dogs sometimes. They run over making noise and a dog fears it's an attack or something.

 

My friend dog sits and one of the dogs is a Doberman. It's a really stupid dog and can't be trusted too much. So when kids ask if they can pet him, we always say no. The dog probably won't do anything (and doesn't have a violent history) but I can't trust the kid will approach it right. It's a stupid risk for me to take essentially.

 

RyDogg66, if you don't want your kids by them than that is certainly your right. It's probably the safest thing. But I think people defend them so much because many people make generalizations about them and assume they are naturally evil dogs who only want to fight. That's simply not true. It's not fair to generalize about all owners and offspring. There's plenty of responsible owners and well bred Pits. It really can be a very loving, peaceful, loyal breed as well as a good working dog. A few rotten apples have ruined it for everyone else.

 

And you ask why that breed when there's 1000 others? Because some people just love that breed. I couldn't imagine having something other than a Great Dane for instance. There's 1000 other breeds but that's the one I really like.

 

It's probably safe to say Pitbulls have more jerk owners and crumby breeders than other breeds. That's not the Pits fault.

[cweber39]

I forgot about Spud!

[RyDogg66]

More fun with Pits.

 

http://www.kirotv.com/news/13943140/detail.html (seattle)

 

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny-brf--pitbulldeath0820aug20,0,6511207.story (New York)

 

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6964025 (South Carolina)

 

http://www.local6.com/news/13940954/detail.html (Florida)

 

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070820/NRSTAFF/70820023 (North Carolina)

 

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk0NyZmZ2JlbDdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5NzE4NDc4NyZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTM=

 

(Jersey)

 

I could probably go on for another few pages on Pit Bull attacks that have made the news in just the last week.

 

It should be against the law to breed them.

 

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=pit+bull+attack&btnG=Search+News

 

Just follow that link on google news, there are dozens and dozens over the past week to month.

[Fatter than Joey]

Again, given the choices of 1000s of dogs, why someone chooses pit, except for the machismo reason of having a dog that can eat your face in two seconds, is beyond me.

 

I agree.

 

I understand that ultimately blame should fall on the owners, pitbulls are a bad pet choice.

[Patrick425]

pitbulls are a bad pet choice

Amen. I really think for many owners (not all), they own them because of the breed's reputation. It's a macho image thing.

[mark brouhard is number on]

actually i've read that if raised right and by a normal person, the pit bull can be one of the most gentle, loving, friendly dog that you can have. its good with kids if raised right also. it just gets a really bad name because of all the goons and gangsters that own one and don't take care of it the right way.

[Fatter than Joey]

the pit bull can be one of the most gentle, loving, friendly dog that you can have

 

I am quite certain that even the best pitbulls pale in comparison as pets to Labs and/or Retrievers.

 

Pit-bulls are cross bred dogs, that were created for dog-fighting.

 

The bottom line is when people choose dogs like pitbulls or the such for pets, it is because they find labs or retrievers "boring"

[Brian the Automator]

actually i've read that if raised right and by a normal person, the pit bull can be one of the most gentle, loving, friendly dog that you can have. its good with kids if raised right also. it just gets a really bad name because of all the goons and gangsters that own one and don't take care of it the right way.

Sure, it can be. However your chances of it being aggressive are much higher than if you raised, say, a schnauzer the same way.

 

[Invader3K]

I'd never own a dog I couldn't easily pick up and throw across the room, but that's just me. We live in the middle of town in a typical city lot, so owning a bigger dog is kind of silly, in my opinion.

 

I've heard that golden retrievers are actually responsible for the most attacks per year, but that's probably due to the fact that there are so many of them. Insurance companies won't even insure you if they know you own a pitbull, so it's pretty dumb either way.

[Thurston Fluff]

Honestly I think it's a combination of factors. Certain breeds are more prone to violence and unfortunatly many of the people who own those breeds are drawn to them for that reason. Statistically German Shepards have the most number of attacks. The problem with pits is not only their temperment but how they attack. Most dogs snap bite which is to say they bite and let go and bite again. Pits and some other breeds clamp, hold and twist or shake. It causes more damage so the attacks are more severe. I have an uncle who owns several rots who have a similar reputation. Those dogs are very well trained and I would have no problems letting a kid play with them. Supervised of course. I agree wholeheartedly kids should not be allowed to play with dogs who are ot part of the family unsupervised. Sometimes people forget that dogs don't see the world the way humans do. They view their pack with a differant set of rules than they do others.

[mark brouhard is number on]

http://www.pitbullsoforegon.com/breed_history.html

 

 

they are only bad if neglected or raised to be mean. doesn't mean i would ever have one around my child, but a lot of the bad name they get is do to the thug, gangsta culture being in love with them, so you only here the bad press.

[Katuluu]

I've bred and kept various animals for almost two decades now, and I have several friends and associates that keep and breed animals far more dangerous then Pit Bulls, but I must say their is a lot of confusion as to the aggressiveness of Pit Bulls.

 

First, they are actually incredibly gentle dogs when it comes to humans. Pits have always been bred to be docile and obedient to humans, as dog fighters didn't want these dogs turning on them. But, because of their breeding, they are very anti-social dogs. Like many terriers, they are very protective of their territory, and are incredibly dangerous to have around other dogs. Pits don't fight like other dogs, in which a dog will simply try to ascert dominance, Pits fight to kill.

 

It should also be noted that Pits are the only breed of dog that was ever bred to kill. Specifically in this case, other dogs. I can't repeat it enough that no other breed has ever been bred for the sole intention of killing something. Not hunting, or tracking, or rustling up game, but killing. Thru selective breeding they have developed incredible jaw strength, amazing recuperative powers (one example is that their blood coagulates much quicker then other dogs), and an increased sense of territorial dominance. On top of that Pits don't bark when they fight, which has its own added benefits for such a secretive "sport".

 

Pit Bulls are one of the most dangerous domesticated animals one could possibly own. But, I don't believe people should be totally barred from owning one, nor should the breed be wiped out. If you get one from a reputable breeder, and have experience in keeping dogs I think their is a very strong possibility that your Pit would make an excellent pet. But when you have unscrupulous breeders, puppy mills, and potential owners that want them more as a show piece then as a pet you can run into some very dangerous problems with them. They simply should be labelled for experienced owners only. Their are plenty of animals in the pet trade that are treated the same way, whether because of their care requirements or their temperment.

[cweber39]

I agree with Katuluu.

 

 

Why don't we wipe out German Shepards, Bulldogs, Labs, Bull Mastiffs, St. Bernard, Rottweiler, Malamute, Chow Chows, Labs, Great Danes, Dobermans, because they have all killed people.

 

Fun with other dogs not pit bulls

 

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2007/August/Pyreneanmountaindog0807.pdf

 

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2007/August/Lab0801.pdf

 

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2007/August/greatdane0807.pdf

 

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2007/August/akita0807.pdf

 

And my favorite to prove any dog can be a jerk, and the owners/breeders play huge roles in the dogs up bringing.

 

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2007/May/chocolab0507.pdf

 

I can keep going as well.

[homer]

"Why don't we wipe out German Shepards, Bulldogs, Labs, Bull Mastiffs, St. Bernard, Rottweiler, Malamute, Chow Chows, Labs, Great Danes, Dobermans, because they have all killed people"

 

Between 1979 and 1998 Pit Bulls and Rotweilers killed 105 people. All other breeds of dog combined killed 133. So those two breeds alone accounted for 44% of deaths.

 

http://0-www.cdc.gov.mill1.sjlibrary.org/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

[cweber39]

Between 1979 and 1998 Pit Bulls and Rotweilers killed 105 people. All other breeds of dog combined killed 133. So those two breeds alone accounted for 44% of deaths.

I know I saw that, but so what those other dogs still killed people.

[mothershipconnection]

Pitbulls are just a perfect cocktail of danger. An animal that was bred to fight and kill, raised by a substantial percentage of worthless douche owners, who, because they are worthless, do not adequately care for them and/or get them spayed or neutered. The end result is that theses idiots raise dangerous neglected animals who are not socialized and reproduce to make more dangerous animals. Again, because they are worthless people, they often give the dogs away and have too many puppies who must be given to whoever will take them - likely another loser with no job who wants to look tough with his pit.

 

If pits were like an English Bulldog and cost $1,200 from a breeder who had enough demand to be able to screen and deny buyers, the problems would be way less prevalent. However, this is not the case - they are overbred and fall into the hands of a bunch of idiots.

 

Sure, pits can be great loving pets, but almost anything can be safe and healthy when done carefully. Heck, there are people who responsibly and safely use cocaine without ever injuring anyone, committing related crimes, or causing harm, but most users don't do that.

[Thurston Fluff]

It should also be noted that Pits are the only breed of dog that was ever bred to kill. Specifically in this case, other dogs. I can't repeat it enough that no other breed has ever been bred for the sole intention of killing something. Not hunting, or tracking, or rustling up game, but killing. Thru selective breeding they have developed incredible jaw strength, amazing recuperative powers

 

Akitas were bred purely for fighting for thousands of years in Japan. First for fighting bears then other dogs. It's something breeders today have to be very careful about when matching dogs for breeding. it's something they are working very hard to breed out of the dog. They have the strongest bite pressure of any dog and do not play well with other dogs. The breeder we bought ours from will not even sell an Akita to someone who has a dog of the same sex in the home. Everything you said about pits could be said about Akitas. They are very freindly to humans and amazingly gentle around kids. I think the differance between Akitas and Pits are Pits are still being activly bred for fighting in some circles while Akitas are not. That and Akitas are not being bought by people with a need to be macho.

 

Homer I saw the stats you had about dog bites and saw one a couple weeks ago that had slightly differant numbers. Can't find it now but still looking if I find it I'll post it. Not a lot differant, it had pits as the number one killer but German Shepards with a higher bite frequency. Overall there was less damage done by shepards due to the way they bite but they tend to be very possessive and territorial.

[homer]

Backup,

Maybe the data you saw was for fatal and non fatal attacks. Mine was just fatal.

[Katuluu]

Backup is correct that Akitas were bred for fighting at one point, but the breed originated from those that were used to hunt bears. Also, they weren't bred specifically for dog fighting for thousands of years, it was closer to ~200 years. Around 1860 Akitas were then cross bred with multiple strains of dogs to weed out the aggressiveness to other dogs. As he stated, something similar has not occured with Pit Bulls.

 

The Pit Bull breed was created in the early 1800's, when bulldogs were crossed with With various English Terriers, for the sole reason of fighting other dogs. No other breed has been created this way, and I should have been more clear on that. One must also consider that Akitas have been around for thousands of years, as they are one of the oldest dog breeds, and being bred for ~200 years for fighting is a comparitively short time in the breeds existence, and it has been another ~150 years since they were bred that way. Pit Bulls are a relatively young breed at about ~150 years old, who for almost that entire time have been bred for fighting. It's only been in the past decade or so have serious efforts been made to curb their aggressiveness to other dogs. It's dubious as to how well that will work, as all terriers are are decidedly anti-social, but in spite of all of that Pit Bulls are known to be excellent therapy dogs, as their gentle disposition towards people is a perfect area for them. They also are being used highly effectively as K-9 units. While the breed may have come about thru dubious means, they do have value to society, and the vast majority of them are good animals and completely capable of making excellent pets.

 

But like other breeds like Akitas, Terriers, German Shepards, Mastiffs, Chows, Boxers, Dobermans, and Rottweilers, they are territorial and can be aggressive. But it is the owner's responsibility to raise a good pet, not the breed's.

 

Also, backup is correct that German Shepards bite more frequently then any other dog, but all of the dogs I listed are typically difficult to insure as they are known for biting. Pit Bulls are by no means the only potentially dangerous dog breed.

[cweber39]

I never knew that about the Akitas... hmmm...

[Crazyk1294]

If pits were like an English Bulldog and cost $1,200 from a breeder who had enough demand to be able to screen and deny buyers, the problems would be way less prevalent. However, this is not the case - they are overbred and fall into the hands of a bunch of idiots.

My Rottweiler cost me close to $1000. I even got a discount from the breeder because he was the last male of that litter. A quick google search gave me this link with some rather expensive Pit Bull puppies. I don't think people (aside from Mike Vick) are spending $1000 dollars on dogs for the sole purpose of having them fight and be killed.

[mothershipconnection]

I'd guess that those $1,000 pits probably are well cared for pets. It's the free ones people have sitting in a pee-soaked basement that are the problem, and you don't have that with other purebreds.

[Katuluu]

I know here in Minneapolis it has become a big problem that gang members are now buying Pit Bulls to use them as showpieces to mark their territories. Evidently, it's easier and thought to be more effective to have a Pit Bull then brandish a weapon. That certainly isn't going to help the breeds reputation at all.