Any doubt that something is wrong with CV?

[madjeff66]

Quick check indicates that Villy has 69 2/3 innings in relief, which I'm pretty sure after checking baseball-reference today leads MLB. And that doesn't include the 5 inning start on about 30 minutes notice which might as well have been relief.

 

If a 23 year old leads MLB in relief innings and has been getting lit up lately, it might be a sign that he's at a dead-arm point and there's no purpose in putting him in a mop-up role like yesterday. He really could have used yesterday and today off.

[thablingster]

That was Shouse? I thought it was Spurling or Dessens. Obviously I was wrong. Can't get anything right in this thread I guess. Regardless the point is still the same. He did just what Diskono said he should and got burnt anyway then got hammered for his stupidity. There is no right or wrong until after it plays out I guess.

Dessens gave up 5 runs in the final NY game, but we were already down 4-0 at the time and OP had given up 1 hit and 2 walks at that point, so it didn't look like we were going to be coming back.

 

[Diskono]

That was Shouse? I thought it was Spurling or Dessens. Obviously I was wrong. Can't get anything right in this thread I guess. Regardless the point is still the same. He did just what Diskono said he should and got burnt anyway then got hammered for his stupidity. There is no right or wrong until after it plays out I guess.

The way I see it, if Ned puts Turnbow in in a critical situation and Turnbow fails, I can accept that - we put our best out there, and just weren't good enough. I'm sure plenty of people would criticize Ned for that, but for me, the blame is entirely on the players. Either way, I think bullpen management has a lot to do with which batters you are facing. In that Philly game, Shouse came in to face the top of the order - that's a situation where I'd want one of the better relievers. If Abraham Nunez, Carlos Ruiz and the pitcher were due up, I'd have no problem with Spurling or Shouse.

[Ennder]

Turnbow doesn't generally do well when you bring him in with runners on so he usually is only brought in at the start of an inning.

 

I do agree with you that bullpens are mismanaged in general since your best RP should be in for the roughest part of the game and not just the 8th and 9th every time. I just don't think Turnbow does all that well putting out fires that others start.

[Diskono]

Turnbow doesn't generally do well when you bring him in with runners on so he usually is only brought in at the start of an inning.

 

I do agree with you that bullpens are mismanaged in general since your best RP should be in for the roughest part of the game and not just the 8th and 9th every time. I just don't think Turnbow does all that well putting out fires that others start.

 

He hasn't done very well with runners on this season, but he's been pretty good in the past so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I still think Turnbow is a good choice for situations where you pretty much need a strikeout.

[LouisEly]

This isn't the bullpen management thread. This is the Carlos Villanueva thread.

 

1) Any doubt that something is wrong with him?

 

2) What should they do with him?

 

The question isn't "why is he doing poorly?" The question is, "he's doing poorly - what should they do about it?"

[brettac1]

Something is wrong with him, and has been for a while. He's never been a reliever like this, and he's not used to pitching in so many games. It's not the innings - it's the appearances and times warmed up. He's thrown a lot of pitches with short rest, and it is usually a high leverage/stress situation when he appears, which quite likely leads to more stress on his arm, as he has to work harder.

 

I'm not sure what they can do with him, outside of just using him much less. They might not be able to do that in August, though, so it may have to wait until rosters expand in September.

[Thurston Fluff]

It's not the innings - it's the appearances and times warmed up.

 

It's a combination of both innings and appearnaces. There are more than 50 relievers who have as many or more appearnaces than Villy so the number of appearnaces alone does not account for the decline.

 

In that Philly game, Shouse came in to face the top of the order - that's a situation where I'd want one of the better relievers.

 

Shouse has been one of the better relievers. I agree with most of what you said. I think just because we tink that way though doesn't make it the only workable approach to the same situations.

[DrWood]

the "other guys have more appearances" argument is irrelevant. What's relevant is how quickly Villanueva recovers physically and mentally from being used. This is his first year (at least recently) where he's been a reliever. He's toast right now and they should shut him down till the end of the month. They can bring up aquino, McClung, or put bray or salas on the 40 man roster and bring him up.

[Diskono]

Backupcatchers wrote:

 

In that Philly game, Shouse came in to face the top of the order - that's a situation where I'd want one of the better relievers.

 

Shouse has been one of the better relievers. I agree with most of what you said. I think just because we tink that way though doesn't make it the only workable approach to the same situations.

He has been, but there were 2 righties and a switch hitter due up that inning.

 

Back to Villanueva, weren't the Brewers reluctant to move guys like Neugebauer and JM Gold to the bullpen because it was more stressful to pitch several times a week and not be on a set schedule? If that was indeed the case, I can totally understand fatigue being an issue even if he's not even close to his innings pitched from last year.

[MoneyballMan]

I'm sure we'll continue to find out tonight, as you can almost count on Yost using him!

 

Maybe it's time to put CV in the rotation for a couple of starts (maybe 3 - 2 weeks) and let Capuano collect himself by coming out of the bullpen for those two weeks. At least we could see if there's something wrong with CV - he's know exactly when he's pitching and be able to prepare for it. At least for a couple of weeks. Although I may be nuts.