Honest question: Is Johnny Estrada part of the problem?

[bklynbrewcrew]

Estrada is a huge problem and we shouldnt keep him past this season. His defense is just flat out awful and he couldnt throw himself out trying to steal. There has to be a better catcher out there because Estrada is flat out awful.

[TooLiveBrew]

And no, I don't think Estrada can be blamed for the pitching troubles of late. Blame him for having a mediocre stick and bad defense.

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... And please don't retain him for 2008 - PLEASE! http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/mad.gif

[thablingster]

I remember people used to complain about Chad Moeller's defense, I was bored and looked up Moeller's numbers... Estrada's are right around his, if not a little worse http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ennder]

For what its worth only 4 C's in baseball have a lower win share to AB ratio than Estrada. Sadly Miller's defense isn't any better than Estrada's.

[Brian the Automator]

Does anyone have a better option than "Not Johnny"?

[brettac1]

Michael Barrett

[Paul77]

Did anyone notice how he came back to the dugout grimacing and holding the back of his leg after scoring today. We knew he was slow coming into this year, but his nagging leg issues are making him even slower.

[billyhallfan]

For what its worth only 4 C's in baseball have a lower win share to AB ratio than Estrada. Sadly Miller's defense isn't any better than Estrada's.

 

I don't buy that, there were two pitches by Aquino that any day of the week Miller catches, and Estrada let them go to the backstop and then walk to get them. One can look at stats and say someone is better or whatever else, but Miller catches those balls. Plus, I can't remember who, and when I think Pence was up against Sheets and looked foolish and lost on two curveballs. So then Estrada calls for a fast ball on a 0-2 count, and Pence gets a hit...

[Ennder]

For what its worth only 4 C's in baseball have a lower win share to AB ratio than Estrada. Sadly Miller's defense isn't any better than Estrada's.

 

I don't buy that, there were two pitches by Aquino that any day of the week Miller catches, and Estrada let them go to the backstop and then walk to get them. One can look at stats and say someone is better or whatever else, but Miller catches those balls. Plus, I can't remember who, and when I think Pence was up against Sheets and looked foolish and lost on two curveballs. So then Estrada calls for a fast ball on a 0-2 count, and Pence gets a hit...

 

Just a week ago I watched Miller let two very easy balls fly right past him, he's a well below average C at this point.

[Hammer]

I just saw the passed ball on Sportscenter again and am now in a VERY bad mood again. What a worthless attempt by Johnny. I really don't care who is our catcher next year as long as it is not him.

[Fatter than Joey]

Just a week ago I watched Miller let two very easy balls fly right past him, he's a well below average C at this point.

 

I agree -- I don't think we can just start Miller for 5-6 games in a row.

 

It did occur to me though last night that perhaps Miller could come in to replace Estrada in the 8th or 9th inning in close games -- I am not suggesting that this would solve all our WOAHS but it may get us a win here and there.

[endaround]

BP:

 

Miller FRAA 2

 

Estrada FRAA -7

 

Miller isn't what he once was, Estrada is a never been.

[ILuvDaBush]

Why is it that the two players that I thought did not put the Brewers first (Estrada and Tony G.), were the two players who Ned got into a fight with in the dugout. Estrada has long had a rep of being an abrasive personality and Graffy is the epitome of a mercenary...a bat for hire to the highest bidder. And as for Estrada's replacement, here's hoping Mike Rivera comes up on fire, as he could actually fulfill the 35HR/65RBI mold (with a couple of good winds). And if he doesn't, I could be amenable to taking Jenkins' cash and giving it to Pudge. The Angel needs a role model, with his ADD-iction, and need I remind everyone that his last two teams have gone to the Series in two of the last four years...both times with teams that were considered to be much less prior to the little guy's arrival. He calls a good game, and while his defense is deteriorated from his one BENCH-worthy (in a good way) level, he still would have to be considered one of the top catchers in the NL. Thus...trade the guy for a Japanese outfielder...a gamer with some grit.

[lumberrule]

Johnny Estrada, career: .281/.322/.406, 728 OPS

Johhny Estrada, 2007: .280/.300/.400, 700 OPS

 

Avg. NL C, 2007: .255/.316/.389, 705 OPS

 

To be fair, Estrada is about where he usually his career-wise, just a slight dip in OBP. The Brewers and the fans have simply over-valued what he was going to give us.

 

Not saying he's an outstanding player by any means, but he really isn't underachieving that badly from his career numbers, and he's on the wrong side of 30. He's pretty much smack dead-on average for catchers in the National League this year.

 

Honestly, there's really only about a half-dozen catchers in the MLB that truly are difference makers on offense. The rest are pretty much lumped in the same category as Johnny.

[Paul77]

Why is it that the two players that I thought did not put the Brewers first (Estrada and Tony G.), were the two players who Ned got into a fight with in the dugout.

That is the exact opposite of what his team mates say. They LOVE Graffanino. He has been praised for his leadership by his teammates, particularly Prince Fielder. I sat with a member of the Brewers front office back in July and she said Graffy was a "Great guy, nicest on the team" (though she did call him "Stinkarino" at the time). I don't think there is any evidence to support the notion that Tong G. is not a team player.

 

Estrada and Graffy were defending JJ Hardy from what they considered harsh criticism by Yost when the dugout incident occurred.

[Fatter than Joey]

To answer the thread's question "Is JE part of the problem" -- If you define "the problem" as "2nd half WOAHS", Estrada certainly has been part of the problem.

 

Since the AS break -- JE has been the worst catcher in the NL (.570 OPS) -- compounding things is that Miller has been even worse. The Brewers since the AS break have the worst catching in the NL.

 

Generally with a C, you can tolerate an extended slump if their defense is solid -- but that is certainly not the case with JE. Furthermore JE has been getting thrown out on the basepaths, and has only 5 2bs and 0 HRs since the AS break.

 

Now, is JE screwing over the SP by calling a bad game? -- Hard to say.

 

It has been awhile since we have gotten good production from our C, on either side of the ball.

[bjkrautk]

Did anyone notice how he came back to the dugout grimacing and holding the back of his leg after scoring today. We knew he was slow coming into this year, but his nagging leg issues are making him even slower.

I'm not a fan of Estrada, but I'm hesitant to criticize his productivity (offensive and defensive) without knowing just how hurt those legs are. Catching takes quite the toll on a player's legs....if his legs are hurting, that can carry over to making quick lateral movements to block balls, getting out of the stance quickly to make a throw to 2b, running the bases, etc.

 

I don't think he's the long-term solution at the position, and he will never walk enough to be a stud offensive performer, but there are catchers far worse than JE pulling an MLB paycheck.

[dadofandrew]

What Ben said.

 

The mere fact he's playing everyday and hitting average for a C makes him easily tolerable. As beat up as catchers get behind the plate, it seems people complain about whoever is C every year. If it was easy, everyone would play there.

 

When I went to the Indians/angels matinee, my brother and i sat in the 4th row right behind home plate. It was a cool day, and in the 8th inning, there was a meeting at the mound. Everyone looked to be happy and smiling, and then the Angels' C walked back to the plate...he was sweating profusely, and with all due respect to actual soldiers, looked like he had been in combat, bleeding from one arm, all dirty and sweaty. That's not an easy life.

 

The irony here is, many folks insisted Estrada was not hurt what, 3 months ago? He's still nowhere near full strength, but has not missed any time at all. I feel it's a pretty safe bet he's been at about 75% much of the year.

[twobrewers]

The irony here is, many folks insisted Estrada was not hurt what, 3 months ago? He's still nowhere near full strength, but has not missed any time at all. I feel it's a pretty safe bet he's been at about 75% much of the year.

I don't want to pile on Estrada - because you are probably right that he is playing at less than 100%. (Though 75% seems pretty low) Anyways, during Monday's game he was on first base when Counsell tripled. Estrada almost got thrown out at home - on a triple! By the time he was rounding 3B he might as well have been crawling.

 

I have NEVER seen anyone moving so slow on the base paths. It was actually really comical - Counsell looked like he was going to catch up to him and slap him on the butt a few times to get him moving!

[Paul77]

I don't want to pile on Estrada - because you are probably right that he is playing at less than 100%. (Though 75% seems pretty low) Anyways, during Monday's game he was on first base when Counsell tripled. Estrada almost got thrown out at home - on a triple! By the time he was rounding 3B he might as well have been crawling.

 

I have NEVER seen anyone moving so slow on the base paths. It was actually really comical - Counsell looked like he was going to catch up to him and slap him on the butt a few times to get him moving!

That was the very play I was talking about earlier. He came into the dugout with a look of pain on his face clutching the back of his leg. This guy caught almost non stop in the spring trying to get acquainted with all the pitchers and he certainly has been beaten up a lot during the year. Add to that his natural "speed" and you've got the making for a lot of close plays like that.

 

[twobrewers]

I saw the grimace/pain on his face - but not being a big Estrada fan, I took it as "Man, he is so slow and fat he can barely run from 1B to Home. Look how winded he is!"

 

However, you are probably right that it has more to do with wear and tear on his body than being out of shape.

 

(I still like my story better though)

[kalle8]

in my opinion you can't be a professional player and have the belly.

estrada is fat.

being out of shape produces injuries and doesn't make you acheive (for your team and for your money) full potential

..and most of all i don't like his belly.

i'm looking forward seeing ray king's one, it is always mesmerizing..

[logan82]

in my opinion you can't be a professional player and have the belly.

David Wells

[dadofandrew]

Babe Ruth pretty much makes that statement look off-the-charts ridiculous.

[logan82]

Forgot to add wht Miller said earlier this week. "You can't pull fat."