Honest question: Is Johnny Estrada part of the problem?

[AJAY]

We just witnessed another pitching meltdown today. I am starting to wonder if Johnny Estrada might be part of the problem. Is he handling the staff well enough? I am not saying he is or he isn't, but it's time to at least ask the question and start looking at things more closely. I know he has been traded and given up on a lot in the past. I also know that he never throws out runners. His lack of speed is also starting to hurt us on the basepaths. Finally, he isn't very patient at the plate either.

Is it time to let Damian Miller start 5or 6 games in a row just to see what happens? I feel bad singling out Estrada, but I am so sick of losing and we really need to look at everything and ask some tough questions now..

Thoughts?

(added tags --1992)

[AJAY]

I should also mention that the Cubs seemed to take off after they traded Michael Barrett.

 

Coincidence?

[adambr2]

I don't know. I know we were unbelievable early this year in games where Miller started. I don't know what the split is anymore. And I don't know if Miller still has enough to be starting 4 straight games or so. But I guess it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. I just can't think of any good reason that the pitching has struggled so tremendously across the board. Starters, relievers, you name it -- if our pitching was as expected, we'd be running away with the Central.

[brewers255]

Simple answer: No

Estrada is just calling the pitches, the pitchers have to execute.

[Pedro]

FYI, the team is 43-40 in games Estrada starts and 20-13 in games Miller starts.

[danzig6767]

I'm no fan of Estrada,but i've seen tons of pitches in our pitching crash where he's set up in a certain spot and the pitch gets nailed after missing the target badly.Estrada will be set on the corner and the pitch splits the center of the plate,hard to blame the catcher for that.

[giffted1]

Johnny can't help that the pitchers aren't hitting their spots. They've been bad with Miller lately as well.

[adambr2]

FYI, the team is 43-40 in games Estrada starts and 20-13 in games Miller starts.

 

That would make us 10 games over .500. Are those numbers as of a few days ago?

[imaji]

Is Miller CAPABLE of starting 5-6 games in a row? He's not exactly a spring chicken, and I know what MY knees feel like after a softball game, and I don't even have to squat!

 

Might be worth a shot at this point, regardless...too many more of these and we can break out the forks.

[Pedro]

FYI, the team is 43-40 in games Estrada starts and 20-13 in games Miller starts.

That would make us 10 games over .500. Are those numbers as of a few days ago?

 

I just pulled them off baseball-reference real quick. But it's late, I'm ornery, and I've had a few bourbons.

[bball123h2]

2007 Catcher ERA:

 

Estrada 4.45

Miller 3.83

 

Career:

 

Estrada 4.15

Miller 4.00

 

Estrada may be slightly inferior, but I'm not sure its significant enough to make a huge difference.

[Paul77]

FYI, the team is 43-40 in games Estrada starts and 20-13 in games Miller starts.

Yeah, but didn't we start out like 10-1 in Millers starts. You could just as easily twist it around and say, we're 10-12 (or whatever the number is) in Millers last 22 starts. Lets not forget Estrada was the starter when things were going great too.

 

I agree with the post above that say that the pitchers have to execute.

 

[Pedro]

FYI, the team is 43-40 in games Estrada starts and 20-13 in games Miller starts.

Yeah, but didn't we start out like 10-1 in Millers starts. You could just as easily twist it around and say, we're 10-12 (or whatever the number is) in Millers last 22 starts. Lets not forget Estrada was the starter when things were going great too.

 

I agree with the post above that say that the pitchers have to execute.

 

 

Purely an informational post only; I wasn't trying to imply anything about the relative merits of either catcher in regards to handling pitchers or W/L.

[Nearsighted Views]

Estrada is part of the problem. But to try and pin this team's struggles down on the catcher, IMO, is a stretch. Many of the balls that have been hit hard are down the middle and I doubt he is calling for that.

 

This team pretty much sucks all around right now and I'd love to be able to nail it down to 1 thing but I can't. They don't seem to be doing anything well right now.

[chiltonno1brewerfan]

I'm not a Johnny Estrada fan to begin with, however, I do not believe we can blame him for the pitching woes, we can blame the Brewer management for not trading for more pitching help. I mean it's not like they don't have enough trade bate. Personally I wouldn't have traded Wil Inman, sure he's not living up to the hype that the experts are giving him, but that's why they have him in the minors. To blame Estrada for the pitching, heck you might as well blame Damian Miller also.They need more, better pitching, I would send Matt Wise down to the minors until he gets his control back, he's got to get that bean-ball out of his head. There's a whole list of pitchers that the Brewers have that make me just cringe whenever Ned puts them in,,,,,and unfortunately Derrick Turnbow and Coco Cordero are coming close to being on that list.

[logan82]

I wouldn't go so far as to blame Estrada for our pitching. I think he might be some small part of the problem. I am not seeing as many pitches in the dirt aas I am used to. I remember the last few years that whenever Sheets had a guy on 2 strikes you would see quite a few balls in the dirt. My perception is that Estrada doesn't call for breaking balls in the dirt as much as Miller and Moeller did. I might be wrong though. It seems like our pitchers are having a hard time finishing guys off when they get to 2 strikes. I am not sure if that is because Estrada is calling pitches out of the zone because he wants them or he is calling them because that is what the pitcher prefers. I wish our pitchers would be more agressive.

[Ennder]

I should also mention that the Cubs seemed to take off after they traded Michael Barrett.

 

Coincidence?

 

Yes Coincidence.

 

The Cubs look terrible right now and Barrett is not on the team. The Cubs had a hot month followed by a month where everything bounced their way, it had basically nothing to do with the 3 C's that split time over that time frame.

 

I find it hard to blame Estrada for the pitchers having problems throwing strikes. The problem is other than Gallardo and Sheets the entire pitching staff likes to nibble instead of throwing strikes, that seems true with both C's behind the plate.

[davego]

I wonderd the same thing last night. Might have been a sign of desperation on my part, but I was wondering if Johnny was part of the pitching problems. Guess it is hard to identify as pointed out. However, I did assume that Miller would get more of the load as the season unfolded and that Estrada was getting the lions share of the work early in the year to keep Miller fresh for the finish.

[MNBrew]

I'm guessing that the extra 3 wins involved between the Brewers' record in games started by Miller vs. Estrada would come from the games where Miller started at 1B. If that's the case, then obviously Estrada started those games, too.

[rluzinski]

The problem is other than Gallardo and Sheets the entire pitching staff likes to nibble instead of throwing strikes, that seems true with both C's behind the plate.

It has nothing to do with what the pitchers "like" to do, IMO. Yo and Sheets has the ability to locate their pitches better than the rest. When fans get mad at a pitcher for nibbling, they sould really be mad that the pitcher has inferior command.

 

And no, I don't think Estrada can be blamed for the pitching troubles of late. Blame him for having a mediocre stick and bad defense. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[windiv07]

I too believe Estrada is not a primary factor for all of the aforementioned reasons. Further, I think the confrontation in the dugout between him and Ned demonstrates real team leadership potential on Estrada's part.

 

(Admittedly without reading other threads enough lately) I notice no negative comments about Maddux anywhere (even though the pitching performance is solely his responsibility). I couple this with Ned's frequent early visits to the mound (instead of Maddux) and wonder...is there a quiet difference of opinion going on between Yost & Maddux with regard to pitching? Afterall, Ned has frequently taken more than one young pitcher to the woodshed publically with an initial visit to the mound (rahter than sending Maddux out). Granted, pitching CHANGES are the primary duty of the manager. But if Maddux and Yost have not seen eye-to-eye on this, this does not bode well for the pitching staff.

 

And leaving a rookie pitcher in who got shelled for 11 runs in less than 3 innings today while at the same time molly-coddling a veteran relief pitcher with plunkaphobia (Wise)? That is just plain wrong. This is the kind of thing that ruins young careers and prolongs the agony of a veteran who just needs to play ball and stop making excuses. We hear a lot about the influence of the veteran players on the younger ones all the time from Ned, but this one takes the cake! And what about management's infuence on the rooks??? The buck stops with the manager.

 

I wonder aloud if these musings might resemble what may have taken place in the tunnel between Estrada & Yost that fateful day.

[Ennder]

The problem is other than Gallardo and Sheets the entire pitching staff likes to nibble instead of throwing strikes, that seems true with both C's behind the plate.

It has nothing to do with what the pitchers "like" to do, IMO. Yo and Sheets has the ability to locate their pitches better than the rest. When fans get mad at a pitcher for nibbling, they sould really be mad that the pitcher has inferior command.

 

And no, I don't think Estrada can be blamed for the pitching troubles of late. Blame him for having a mediocre stick and bad defense. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

That isn't really true though. There are pitchers who throw strikes regardless of the results and those that like to sit on the edge of the plate. Guys like Livan Hernandez, Doug Davis, Tom Glavine will sit on the corners no matter what, even if they don't have their best control and end up walking 5 or 6 guys. There is a very tangible difference between nibblers and aggressive pitchers. When you have good control nibbling works out more times than not, it has not worked for us this season. Our rotation sans Sheets/Gallardo are not stuff guys so they do need to nibble somewhat to win but they are overdoing it in my opinion.

 

Nibbling + mediocre control = high pitch counts. That has been a real problem for this team this season even in the games where starters do pitch well. I don't think you can blame all of this on Estrada though because they really aren't all that much better under Miller and they all have a history of problems with BB's in the first place, we just sort of hoped last year was a sign of growth for capuano and vargas.

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

I've seen all I need to from this clown, and I hope to God that he is not back next year. Poor plate discipline, no clutch hitting, loafing on the basepaths, mental errors, can't call a game, can't throw at all, and is an all around bad catcher. There are many good reasons he has been traded every year. Why do I fear that the Brewers are going to be the team that gets stuck with him.

 

How anyone can defend him (and I'm sure some will), I have no idea.

[windiv07]

While has possibly the shortest legs in MLB, it is clear he has gained weight and lost a step or two since Spring. He clearly does not know how to catch Aquino. Breaking from first on contact of a gap double to center, a decent throw would have gotten him by 3 steps at home from the warning track. About a dozen pitches got by him today, too. Other than that, he is a great catcher.

[jlau20]

It honestly looks like he's walking when he's 'running' the bases. He got thrown out once at third, why he went I have no idea, then he should have been thrown out at home on the play later on in the game too. To me, there's no part of his game that can balance out him being so flat out slow and so poor at throwing out baserunners. If he was hitting .330 with 25 homers and 65 RBI's, I really wouldn't have a problem with him being this ridiculously slow.